Comments on: Man, Machine, http://mith.umd.edu/eng738T/man-machine/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=man-machine English 738T, Spring 2015 Sat, 12 Nov 2016 04:10:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Manon Soulet http://mith.umd.edu/eng738T/man-machine/#comment-1317 Manon Soulet Mon, 04 May 2015 16:47:28 +0000 http://mith.umd.edu/eng738T/?p=1346#comment-1317 Although I really like your post, I don’t how if I agree about the absolute separation of men and machines at the end of the third movie. Yes, they do live in separate “spheres” – the real and the virtual – but those spheres are now permeable as individuals can pretty much come and go at will (individuals inside the matrix will be free to leave and those in the real often come back into it in order to attend various businesses). But isn’t this permeability between the real and the virtual what we ourselves are trying to achieve? What we aspire to? Isn’t that flexibility (or mobility) freeing us in a sense? Second point, I think I agree with Sara that Neo could be a cyborg if we consider Haraway’s definition, regardless of his symbolic position in the Christian myth of creation. He absolutely corresponds to a poststructuralist subject embedded in a network of codes and texts. Besides, even though he is indeed assimilated with “the one”, “the savior”… it is worth noting that his own origin/birth is certainly problematic. What is his origin? Does he really have an origin? If so, which one? I want to complicate this a little and extend the question of human/machine to the rest of the humans in the movie, the ones in the real to argue that, maybe, this synthesis or fusion between men and machines applies to them all and not just Neo. Take Morpheus for instance, as Tank explained to Neo about what the agents were doing to him: “They are breaking into his mind. It is like hacking a computer.” The machines are changing the patterns of Morpheus’ mind, which implies that the mind is a structure, a system of connections or wires that can therefore be hacked, that is, methodically de-structured or deconstructed, like a machine. And I want to assume that the same would go for Trinity or any other human. In short, a human’s internal organization is no different than that of a cyborg + they all have problematic origins. Also, the humans are not the only one to aspire to freedom; after all, Agent Smith needs the codes of Zion in order to eventually break free from the matrix himself! He wants to be born and separate from his mother. As he says: “I must get out of here. I must get free.” The final point I want to throw out there is this: what if this fusion between men and machines, and the removal of the binary between the real and the virtual did not make them cyborgs, but instead, posthumans? What do you guys think? Although I really like your post, I don’t how if I agree about the absolute separation of men and machines at the end of the third movie. Yes, they do live in separate “spheres” – the real and the virtual – but those spheres are now permeable as individuals can pretty much come and go at will (individuals inside the matrix will be free to leave and those in the real often come back into it in order to attend various businesses). But isn’t this permeability between the real and the virtual what we ourselves are trying to achieve? What we aspire to? Isn’t that flexibility (or mobility) freeing us in a sense?

Second point, I think I agree with Sara that Neo could be a cyborg if we consider Haraway’s definition, regardless of his symbolic position in the Christian myth of creation. He absolutely corresponds to a poststructuralist subject embedded in a network of codes and texts. Besides, even though he is indeed assimilated with “the one”, “the savior”… it is worth noting that his own origin/birth is certainly problematic. What is his origin? Does he really have an origin? If so, which one?

I want to complicate this a little and extend the question of human/machine to the rest of the humans in the movie, the ones in the real to argue that, maybe, this synthesis or fusion between men and machines applies to them all and not just Neo.
Take Morpheus for instance, as Tank explained to Neo about what the agents were doing to him: “They are breaking into his mind. It is like hacking a computer.” The machines are changing the patterns of Morpheus’ mind, which implies that the mind is a structure, a system of connections or wires that can therefore be hacked, that is, methodically de-structured or deconstructed, like a machine. And I want to assume that the same would go for Trinity or any other human. In short, a human’s internal organization is no different than that of a cyborg + they all have problematic origins.
Also, the humans are not the only one to aspire to freedom; after all, Agent Smith needs the codes of Zion in order to eventually break free from the matrix himself! He wants to be born and separate from his mother. As he says: “I must get out of here. I must get free.”

The final point I want to throw out there is this: what if this fusion between men and machines, and the removal of the binary between the real and the virtual did not make them cyborgs, but instead, posthumans? What do you guys think?

]]> By: Sara Lyons http://mith.umd.edu/eng738T/man-machine/#comment-1313 Sara Lyons Wed, 08 Apr 2015 14:39:10 +0000 http://mith.umd.edu/eng738T/?p=1346#comment-1313 If we take the bare bones definition of Cyborg - part mechanism, part organism - then I would say that Neo is indeed a cyborg. Haraway, for all the other points she makes in the manifesto, provides a simple definition of cyborg, saying "A cyborg is a cybernetic organism, a hybrid of machine and organism, a creature of social reality as well as a creature of fiction." I think looking at this definition in the context of the Matrix, and given the points you make here, reveals something about the nature of false/true reality and mechanized/biological bodies. Obviously a "hybrid of machine and organism" would be considered a cyborg, but the presence of a conflation of social reality and fiction is particularly important when it comes to the Matrix, which has both. Indeed, Neo serves as the ultimate conflation of a social reality and fiction as he's able to transcend the fiction of the Matrix and maneuver between this fiction and the reality of Zion. Yet, as you mention here, he transforms from pure human into a human/machine hybrid in order to be able to do so. Thus, given the definition above, Neo is the epitome of cyborg. I'm interested in discussing this further with regard to how Neo has to become this cyborg in order to transcend the virtual reality and cause peace between the virtual/real and the machine/human. Does this suggest that in order to live in a real space - which acknowledges the fictional real as well as the real real - we all must become cyborgs, like Neo? If we take the bare bones definition of Cyborg – part mechanism, part organism – then I would say that Neo is indeed a cyborg. Haraway, for all the other points she makes in the manifesto, provides a simple definition of cyborg, saying “A cyborg is a cybernetic organism, a hybrid of machine and organism, a creature of social reality as well as a creature of fiction.” I think looking at this definition in the context of the Matrix, and given the points you make here, reveals something about the nature of false/true reality and mechanized/biological bodies. Obviously a “hybrid of machine and organism” would be considered a cyborg, but the presence of a conflation of social reality and fiction is particularly important when it comes to the Matrix, which has both. Indeed, Neo serves as the ultimate conflation of a social reality and fiction as he’s able to transcend the fiction of the Matrix and maneuver between this fiction and the reality of Zion. Yet, as you mention here, he transforms from pure human into a human/machine hybrid in order to be able to do so. Thus, given the definition above, Neo is the epitome of cyborg.

I’m interested in discussing this further with regard to how Neo has to become this cyborg in order to transcend the virtual reality and cause peace between the virtual/real and the machine/human. Does this suggest that in order to live in a real space – which acknowledges the fictional real as well as the real real – we all must become cyborgs, like Neo?

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