WMST-L LOG9308D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1993 23:09:07 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lisa Anderson Subject: master's tools/house I suppose how you interpret Lorde's words are in your vision of those tools. For myself, I see hierarchical power structures and western dualism as the tools of the "master's" power; as long as we continue to work within the structures of hierarchy and dualism, we will not be able to eliminate them; their support is inherent in keeping them alive. For example, seeing struggles of race, gender, sexuality as battles that have a common denominator. When we work combining those issues, we avoid the hierarchical "x is more important than y, when all the x's are free, everyone will be, including the y's." When we believe that there is a top, and we have to work towards it, then we are buying into one of the master's tools; we accept that their is a hierarchy, and that we must work to get up as high on that ladder as we can. Moving up in the power structure isn't getting rid of the power structure. It's trying to use hierarchical power structures to defeat those same structures, and that is impossible. -lisa (meriel@u.washington.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 15:42:17 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: terry g wilfong Subject: Re: Master's Tools/Master's House Though not directly related to Women's Studies, the following conference panel might be of interest for the discussion of Master's Tools/Master's House (I noticed this on a flyer posted in my department)--especially if any of the grad students on the list would be interested in giving a paper on the subject: "Reading Ethnography Ethnographically: Can the Master's Tools Destroy the Master's House?", proposed panel for the Eighth Annual Graduate Student Conference on Cultural Studies: Bodies of Theories: Reading and Writing the Desiring Machine (Emory University, 10-12 March 1994). The flyer also notes that the organizers are especially interested in papers relating Cultural Studies to Women's Studies. The contact address listed for this conference is: Malcolm Shelley, Anthropology Department, Emory University, Atlanta GA 30322; deadline for abstract+10 page paper+cover letter is 1 October 1993. And that's all I know about it. Terry Wilfong University of Chicago t-wilfong@uchicago.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 09:17:22 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Bryan Strong: Psychology / UC-Santa Cruz" Subject: Re: Teaching sexuality A clarification regarding my query on ideas, suggestions, experiences, or anecdotes that might be useful for instructors teaching human sexuality: I would be interested in hearing from anyone including sexuality in their courses, not just human sexuality instructors. Thanks ..... Bryan Strong Psychology Board of Studies University of California-Santa Cruz bartleby@cats.UCSC.EDU / bartleby@cats.UCSC.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 09:15:06 U Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Harrison-Pepper Sally Subject: Re: LIT CRIT SUGGESTIONS Jennifer L. Manlowe asked for tips on other novels that deal with a woman's "awakening" to herself/social situation. Jennifer, I teach a course that sounds very similar to yours, and even use or have used most of the books you mention. My students have also very much enjoyed Ntozake Shange's FOR COLORED GIRLS WHO HAVE CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE RAINBOW IS ENUF. It combines ideas about poetry and drama in some useful ways, and it's also a good one to read aloud with students. Sally Harrison-Pepper Harrison-Pepper_Sally@msmail.muohio.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 15:08:45 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Pauline B. Bart" Subject: masters' tools I keptthat Audre Lorde quote on my door for years, and it was invaluable when I hadmy "Troubles" or perhaps the Universityhad its "troubles" with me. I interpret it in several ways, all of which are useful. First and most obvious, do not limit yourself to the fashionable methodology in your field, although you should be able to read it so youcan criticize it (in some cases it maynot be worth it) Thus feminist sociologists should understand number crunching (quantitative techniques) but use whatever methodology will answer their questions. This may not seem radical but in my former sociology department only quantitative survey research witdh fancy equaltions was considered "real" sociology. Had I taken that dictum seriously Iwouldn't have done most of my work. Secondly it means tome that one has to have significant others tovalidate oneself and one's work outside the Masters' House. That is one reason E mail has been so useful to me. The third is not to want surplus survival and to beware of those who do i.e. lwho are ambitious and thusneed the masters' approval. I use surplus survival as in "surplus repression". I don't criticize people whomakecompromises, as long as theydon't involve selling out their friends, before tenure. After there is absolutely no excuse. Fifth decide what is important to you as a person and donot compromise on those no matter what. Decide what compromises you can make and keep them to a bare minimum because they do help the Masters house(e.g. I can dress "appropriately" when I absolutely have to and I do). And remember the underlying model Audre used is la conflict model. They are the Masters. We are not. Pauline B. Bart U17334@UICVM.UIC.EDU (University of Illinois at Chicago) Everything is data, but data isn't everything... Don't kill the messenger! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 20:31:18 +0300 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: naomy graetz Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In-Reply-To: <9308210422.AA23792@umd5.umd.edu> I'm interested in literary texts that deal with wife-beating. Has anyone taught a course that incorporated such texts? My impression--I haven't checked this out--is that today the topic is being dealt with more openly in popular novels than it was in past. I know Faulkner has some texts about w.b.--but haven't been able to find them. I would appreciate any input on this subject--including secondary sources. Naomi Graetz (graetz@bgumail.bgu.ac.il) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 10:37:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: dl81 Subject: women authors I've been asked to review a reference guide to American literature and make recommendations about significant women and black writers who have not been included in earlier editions. I will be faxing my responses Tuesday, but in the meantime would be interested in polling the network on any "musts" subscribers would want to make sure are included, in case I've missed anybody of major importance or broad academic use. Thanks. DEBBIE LOUIS ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 09:02:18 -0600 Reply-To: "Elizabeth A. Meese" Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Elizabeth A. Meese" Subject: Re: master's tools/house In-Reply-To: <9308211659.AA20017@umd5.umd.edu> ditto to Ginsberg. tools have their uses, their potentialities. doesn't their "value" depend on the user and the how others read the use? elizbeth meese@english.as.ua.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 21:29:27 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature I would include Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew as literature about wife-beating. I certainly think it would be interesting to consider it in this light anyway. Laurie Finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 23:14:54 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Mindy Fiala Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature You might want to include Zora Neal Hurston's *Their Eyes Were Watching God* as there is one instance in which Teacake hits Janey, however there is also an instance in which she hits him. The incident usually generates much class discussion. Mindy Fiala mfiala@vax1.umkc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 11:13:13 MET-1 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ronald Camstra Subject: Female pope Joanne Hi all, Can someone help me with more information about a female pope, named Joanna, who was send to have been pope in the 9th century until they found out she was a woman? Who knows more about it? Is this a true story or a myth? Can we consider her as an early feminist or not? Thanks in advance! Ronald Camstra CAMSTRA@IVIP.FRW.UVA.NL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 07:50:23 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Glynis Carr Subject: Re: White Privilege essay I agree with Joan Korenman's criticism of McIntosh's overly general notion of "white privilege." Although I find M's essay extremely valuable in the classroom--especially as an "eye-opener" for white students unused to thinking about race theoretically--many of the privileges she lists as "white privileges" seem to me to be class privileges instead. Also, when I use this article with students, I ask them to consider differences between types of privilege. That is, I ask them, as a preliminary step, to distinguish between those privileges that need to be renounced and those that need to be more broadly socialized (e.g., the "privilege" of being ignorant of other cultures vs. the "privilege" of being treated fairly by the banking industry). This helps students answer their perennial question: now that I know about racism, what do I do? Glynis Carr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 08:15:23 U Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Harrison-Pepper Sally Subject: Re: Female pope Joanne > Can someone help me with more information about > a female pope, named Joanna, who was said to have > been pope in the 9th century until they found out > she was a woman? Who knows more about it? Is this > a true story or a myth? Can we consider her as an > early feminist or not? While I don't have any concrete information to offer about Pope Joanna, she's a character in Caryl Churchill's play _TOP GIRLS_ and tells quite a story in the play. It seems as if Churchill did research to construct this character, but I don't know that for a fact. Sally Harrison-Pepper Harrison-Pepper_Sally@msmail.muohio.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 10:28:02 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: BARBARA WIESNER Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature Toni Morrison's *the Bluest Eye* has a scene of wife beating. barbara Barbara Wiesner BLWIESNE@OWUCOMCN BLWIESNE@CC.OWU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 10:30:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Phyllis Holman Weisbard Subject: Re: women authors Re: >I've been asked to review a reference guide to American literature and make >recommendations about significant women and black writers who have not been >included in earlier editions. I will be faxing my responses Tuesday, but in >the meantime would be interested in polling the network on any "musts" >subscribers would want to make sure are included, in case I've missed >anybody of major importance or broad academic use. Thanks. >DEBBIE LOUIS Debbie's posting gives me an oportunity to plug some excellent biographical reference works that have appeared in the last year -- all with indexes by occupation/area of endeavor: NOTABLE BLACK AMERICAN WOMEN, edited by Jessie Carney Smith. Detroit: Gale Research, 1992, 1334 p. BLACK WOMEN IN AMERICA: AN HISTORICAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, edited by Darlene Clark Hine. Brooklyn: Carlson Pub., 1993 (2 vol., 1530 p.). [biographical and topical entries] NOTABLE HISPANIC AMERICAN WOMEN, ed. by Diane Telgen & Jim Kamp. Gale Research, 1993.448 p. NATIVE AMERICAN WOMEN: A BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY, ed. by Gretchen M. Bataille.NY: Garland, 1993. 333 p. I've written more detailed reviews of each of these in our pub. FEMINIST COLLECTIONS, but in summary, ALL these books have interesting entries, photos, bibliographic suggestions for further info., and detailed indexes and go a long way to making it easier to be more inclusive in covering the contributions of these women to all fields. Recommend them for purchase to your acquisitions librarian... ****** Phyllis Holman Weisbard (608) 263-5754 Acting Women's Studies Librarian pweis@wiscmacc (Bitnet) University of Wisconsin System pweis@macc.wisc.edu (Internet) Room 430 Memorial Library 728 State Street Madison, WI 53706 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 10:55:28 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: d000wgsp@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature Of course there is The Color Purple. There is also wife-beating in Agnes Smedley's Daughter of Earth. Irene goldman 00icgoldman@bsuvc.bsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 11:58:38 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: DAPHNE PATAI Subject: Re: Female pope Joanne In-Reply-To: <9308230928.AA16623@umd5.umd.edu> from "Ronald Camstra" at Aug 23, 93 11:13:13 am The story about "Popess Joan" (actually Joanna) is a complete myth fabricated to discredit the papacy as part of the propaganda of the French crown against Rome during a conflict over taxation. The earliest mention of a "Popess Joan" is in a 1250 chronicle by Jean de Mailly. It gained wide currency in the 14th century because the story was used by supporters of King Philip IV of France who was embroiled in a vicious quarrel with the papacy-. The story was built on a medieval custom and a folktale. The custom is: during his coronation ceremony at the Lateran palace, the pope used to sit for a while on an ancient Rome parturition chair to symbolize Mother Church giving birth to a new pontificate. In the nasty version of this custom, invented by the French, it was reinterpreted to mean that because of the calamity of "Popess Joan," each pope had to have is genitals examined in order to make sure he was a man. The folktale is a familiar one, of a young girl with talent and ambitions to be learned, but stymied as a woman. She dressed and passed as a man, became so accomplished that she rose to high position in the Church, and was ultimately chosen pope. Propagandists against the papacy manufactured the notion about a female pope from these ingredients. They were given circulation in the history of the papacy by Platina and in the biographical works of Boccaccio, as well as many other chronicles, etc. In the Protestant Reformation, as part of anti-Roman propaganda, the story was given great prominence, as you might imagine. If you want to know more about tis, read J. von Doellinger, "Papst-Legenden" [a book]. ====================== Daphne.Patai@spanport.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 11:47:55 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Karen Fresco Subject: Re: Female pope Joanne See Bullough, Vern L. and James Brundage, Sexual Practices and the Medieval Church (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1982):50-52. A footnote cites considerable bibliography on Pope Joan. Karen Fresco French Department University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign kfresco@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 13:26:34 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List Comments: Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X From: Linda Lopez McAlister Subject: Audre Lorde Poetry Competition I just got an announcement from the Cleveland Poetry Center announcing the Audre lorde Poetry Competition, open to all lesbian poets of color. The winning poet will have her manuscript published by the Center at Cleveland State University in Spring, 1994. Manuscripts should contain material for a book of 50 - 100 pages; it should be typewritten (clear photocopy acceptable), with pages numbered and poet's name, address, and phone number on the cover sheet. If individual poems have been published elsewhere, they should be listed with publishers on an acknowledgements page; the poet will be expected toobtain permission for reprinting. Manuscripts must be postmarked by November 29, 1993. They will be returned only if accompanied by a stamped, self-addressed envelope. submissionsshould be sent to: Prof. Nuala Archer, Director, Clevel and Poetry Center, CSU Department of English, Rhodes Tower, Room 1815, Cleveland, Ohio 44115. Attn: Audre Lorde Poetry Competition. Address all questions, etc., to Nuala Archer, not to me. Thanks. LLM *************************************************************** HYPATIA has her old e-mail address: dllafaa@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu But Linda has a new one she'd prefer you to use for non-Hypatia and non-SWIP-L mail. It's mcaliste@chuma.cas.usf.edu Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 13:29:03 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Cindy Jenefsky Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 22 Aug 1993 20:31:18 +0300 from See: Mercy by Andrea Dworkin. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 14:19:16 -0400 Reply-To: Lila Hanft Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lila Hanft Subject: Re: query re master's tools > >Can someone give me the exact phrasing and the source (author and >reference if possible) to the comment that you can't tear down the >master's house using the master's tools? I'd also be interested in >knowing how people feel about this comment. Many thanks, in advance. >D. > -- >====================== >Daphne.Patai@spanport.umass.edu > > "The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House," Audre Lorde (Comment at "The Personal and the Political" Panel of the Second Sex Conference, Oct. 29, 1979. Printed in _This Bridge Called My Back_ and one of Lorde's books of essays (the title escapes me just now)). Lila Hanft lxh16@po.cwru.edu -- Lila Hanft Internet: lxh16@po.cwru.edu Assistant Professor of English Phone: (216)-368-2372 Case Western Reserve University Fax: (216)-368-2216 Cleveland, OH 44106-7117 Bitnet: lxh16%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 13:29:44 -0600 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Deirdre Bonnycastle Subject: Master's tools I agree with lori's (spelling?) about using the tools of heirarchy to build a better world for women and others. I recently listened to a group of women discuss how to deal with insubordinationof other women and was quite astounded how often the words "the boss is the boss" was repeated. The heirarchical style of management doesn't work very well for men why would women want to continue to use it and even promote it. Deirdre ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 15:39:51 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Ginsberg, Elaine K" Subject: Re: Female pope Joanne In-Reply-To: Message of 08/23/93 at 11:13:13 from CAMSTRA@IVIP.FRW.UVA.NL Marjorie Garber, in VESTED INTERESTS, claims that a female who cross dressed as a man to remain by the side of her lover, a monk, and was subsequently chosen Pope (only to be discovered when she became pregnant and delivered a child) is only a legend (see p. 215). ELAINE K. GINSBERG DEPARTMENT OF ENGLISH INTERNET: EGINS@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY BITNET:EGINS@WVNVM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 15:23:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beth Lee Simon Subject: first of the sections on gender marking/pronouns From: IN%"linguist@tamsun.tamu.edu" "The Linguist List" To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST Subject: 4.562 Sum: Gender Markedness Return-path: R <@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU:owner-linguist@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU> Received: from umailsrv0.umd.edu by wigate.nic.wisc.edu; Sun, 22 Aug 93 14:33 CDT Received: by umailsrv0.UMD.EDU (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA18026; Sun, 22 Aug 93 15:34:59 -0400 Received: by umailsrv0.umd.edu, Sun, 22 Aug 93 15:34 EDT Received: by umailsrv0.umd.edu, Mon, 26 Jul 93 08:56 EDT Received: from TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU by tamvm1.tamu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) Received: with BSMTP id 6087; Mon, 26 Jul 93 07:51:03 CDT Received: from TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TAMVM1) by TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU Received: (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3622; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 07:50:59 -0500 Message-Id: <9307261256.AA01067@umailsv1.UMD.EDU> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 07:49:26 -0500 From: The Linguist List Reply-To: The Linguist List Sender: The LINGUIST Discussion List Subject: 4.562 Sum: Gender Markedness To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Aug 93 15:34 EDT Resent-From: (lc22) Resent-To: BLSIMON@macc.wisc.edu Resent-Message-Id: <9308221934.AA18026@umailsrv0.UMD.EDU> Comments: To: linguist@tamvm1.tamu.edu ----------- Begin Forwarded Message ------------ Received: by umailsrv0.umd.edu, Mon, 26 Jul 93 08:56 EDT Return-Path: <@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU:owner-linguist@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU> Message-Id: <9307261256.AA01067@umailsv1.UMD.EDU> Received: from TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU by tamvm1.tamu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6087; Mon, 26 Jul 93 07:51:03 CDT Received: from TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TAMVM1) by TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3622; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 07:50:59 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 07:49:26 -0500 Reply-To: The Linguist List Sender: The LINGUIST Discussion List From: The Linguist List Subject: 4.562 Sum: Gender Markedness Comments: To: linguist@tamvm1.tamu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LINGUIST List: Vol-4-562. Mon 26 Jul 1993. ISSN: 1068-4875. Lines: 298 Subject: 4.562 Sum: Gender Markedness Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar: Texas A&M U. Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan U. Asst. Editor: Ron Reck -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 23:24:57 -0300 From: mccleary@fox.cce.usp.br (Leland Mccleary) Subject: Gender Markedness -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 23:24:57 -0300 From: mccleary@fox.cce.usp.br (Leland Mccleary) Subject: Gender Markedness On 16 Jul 93 I posted the following query: > But I wonder if we haven't been going about this whole business of de-biasing gender in the language all wrong. Instead of changing all the derivative words, wouldn't it be more efficient, in this case, to establish a single new marked form for the male gender -- something like "xoman/xomen", "yoman/yomen" or "zoman/zomen" -- and leave the unmarked "man" and all of its compounds to stand exclusively for both sexes. Any comments? < The replies came in fast and furious, but seem to have died down, so here are the highlights: Ole Ravnholt comments: > While I very much sympathize with your modest proposal, I am not sure that it will work for all languages. I remember the heart-breaking experience some years ago of reading in the same book (I have forgotten the reference, I'm afraid) two papers, one by English-speaking and one by German-speaking authors. The first one suggested doing away with all sex-biased profession names and keeping only one for each profession: steward/stewardess --> steward. Also, to avoid sexist pronouns, you should keep generic reference in the plural so you could say "they" rather than using the clumsy "he or she" or the obscene "he". And the second one offered the opposite solution of always using two profession names, because the simple, non-derivative forms would (nearly) always be masculine: der Lehrer --> der Lehrer/die Lehrerin; for generic reference in the plural you would then have to take care to always use both: die Lehrer --> die Lehrer und Lehrerinnen. The pronouns would then follw naturally, as in English. So after all, maybe the real problem (and the real solution) is to be sought somewhere else. By the way: In some recent contributions to the LINGUIST list I have seen the word "hann" used in the sense of "s/he". Quite schocking and politically very much incorrect for us speakers of Scandinavian languages in which "han" means "he", and is used in the same sloppy way as in English or German: with male referents as well as with don't-care-which-sex referents. Since "hun" is "she", maybe "hin" is a better suggestion (phonemically maximally distant from either of the sexist words); maybe it is a problem that "hin" means (or used to mean) "yon", but that is rather obsolete (as in English) and not quite inappropriate anyway, is it? < John Kingston remembered that at least in some places, "freshman" has been "out" for some time: >... but at the University of Chicago, between 1972 and 1976 at any rate when I was there (and certainly for some interval before and after), the terms were "first year, second year etc." rather than "freshman, sophomore etc." ... < Mai Kuha relates the following anecdote: > Maybe you've had experiences like the following: a couple of years ago, I was teaching an introductory linguistics course for the first time (as an AI). We had been discussing sexism in language, and some female students were expressing very firm opinions. One of them (a student in her 40's) held the view that "man" as a generic term for a person of either sex was sexist because women "get lumped into the same word," but also that to call a male duck a drake is sexist because the male duck "gets a word all his own." !! < Kate Remlinger had this to say (I have the feeling you didn't catch the spirit of my "modest proposal", Kate; if the suffix -man weren't marked +male, we wouldn't have a problem. I was suggesting, as an exercise, that we consider working on changing the marking rather than changing the word. -LM): > The reason (one reason anyway) there has been an increasing change from gender-marked words, such as 'freshman' to 'first-year student', is to eliminate the semantic exclusion of women and girls. The "suffix" -man is not unmarked--it IS marked + male and cannot stand exclusively for both sexes. Businessman, saleman, congressman, and the plethora of other gender-marked words in English perpetuate sexist attitudes and beliefs that have worked, along with other cultural values, to subjugate women, to limit their opportunities and power. In conjunction with linguistic theories of cultural relativism and determinism, feminist theories of language, especially those of liberal feminists, have made a similar claim to my own above, and have been partially responsible for making our language and our culture (I'm speaking of the North American culture that I experience) less hostile toward women. If you haven't already, perhaps you'd find interest in Dale Spender's (1980) book, _Man Made Language_, London: Pandora; and an edition of various papers on language and gender by Thorne, B. and Henley, N. (Eds.), (1985) _Language and sex: Difference and dominance_. Rowley, Massachussetts: Newbury. One paper, "The Semantic Derogation of Women", especially addresses the issue that you are raising. Of course there are many other writings on this topic, but these are two that seem most relevant. < Terese Thonus casts linguistic doubt on the proposal: > Your idea is a very good one, but it seems to me (at least in the history of morphology) that it's a whole lot easier to reduce than it is to add. The Germans did it right with their "Mensch" generic; the Romance speakers perhaps will never go through language change to avoid sexism as grammatical gender is so ingrained and rarely linked to "real" gender at all. I suppose I would ask someone like Arnold Zwicky or someone in historical linguistics or history of particular languages if this sort of thing has ever been done (purposefully or otherwise) before. < J. Clancy Clements wonders about other features of the -man suffix: > One thought: the compounds in -man are lexicalized to a very large extent in English. I think that over time -man has taken on a semantic feature *related to professions* or something similar. So, a businessman is someone whose profession is in business, a milkman someone whose profession is milk (de- livery), etc. Perhaps -woman does not possess this semantic feature. There is one exception (which may or may not be a counterex.): cleaning woman. Two comments on this compound: 1) cleaning man is easily coined and refers probably to someone in industrial cleaning; 2) if it's true that compounds like cleaning woman (i.e. X-woman, "someone whose profession is X"), then it may be possible to conclude that -woman has a different semantic configuration than -man and therefore does not lend itself as readily to compound formation regarding professions. < Mysti also likes the idea, but doubts that there are mechanisms for changing the default setting of +male. Mike Picone brings the study of neologism to bear on the question: > I don't have any original thinking on the wisdom of using a gender neutralized _-man_ by virtue of introducing _xoman_ or something like it, but the reason I'm writing is because I am studying neological activity in French, including but not limited to borrowings from English. The French have borrowed a lot of _-man_ forms and even invented a few of their own: fauchman, tennisman, clapman, perchman, etc. Somtimes they invent a female equivalent: tenniswoman; or add one that does not exist in English, though the male does: coming-woman. Not all of these are still current or widespread and some say the whole phenomenon is now less pronounced than it was. But, to get to the point, the problems associated with sex de-biasing are different in a language like French where gender is much more ubiquitous than it is in English. For the sake of comparison, I would be interested in references pertaining to the demise of _-man_ forms in English. Perhaps participants in your discussion could provide some. To end on an interesting note, consider for example what happens in French when English words are borrowed that end in agentive _er_, e.g. _leader_. (There are lots of them.) This suffix is gender neutral in English, but if it is to assimilate in French, it will enter into the _-eur_/_-euse_ morphological zone which is gender-dichotomous. _Leader_ in fact is usually pronounced in French as if it carried the _-eur_ ending (+ masc.) though it has resisted orthographic assimilation up till now. To arrive at a + fem version, some resort to _femme leader_. But this is cumbersome and not the kind of term a journalist could repeat more than once in an article without appearing to be overemphasizing gender. The assimilation to _-euse_ has happened in a few cases, but often this + fem suffix refers to a machine or object (which of course is another interesting story charged with sex-political pragmatics): photocopieuse, shooteuse (`syringe' in drug vocabulary). Well, there's more to it than this, and I've simplified a few things, but you get the idea of what kind of problems can be involved. < Steven Schaufele tells an anecdote about a related (failed) "solution" and relates at least a fictional attempt to put the "modest proposal" into effect: > Many, many years ago -- i think it was back in the early 70's, when we were first becoming/being made aware of the sexism inherent in common English usage, an issue was made of the fact that, whereas there was one single mode of address for all men, irrespective of their marital status, a woman's marital status was necessarily proclaimed by the honorific prefix one used in addressing her. The proposed solution, which caught on pretty quickly, was to replace 'Miss/Mrs.' by the generic 'Ms.', as opaque as the traditional 'Mr.' There was, however, a minority suggestion to go the other way: to reserve 'Mr.' for married men and coin a new honorific for bachelors: 'Mt.' (pronounced, if i remember correctly, 'Mist' -- there was some talk of resurrecting the quaint British usage of addressing underage males as 'Master', but it was felt that no self-respecting liberated woman would be willing to address any male as 'master', much less one younger than herself.) At the time, i remember i was very much in favour of this idea; i was single at the time, and very interested in letting it be known that i was available! The science fiction writer David Brin, in his 'uplift' stories, uses the word 'man' very strictly and consistently to refer to any member of the species Homo sapiens. Specifically male and female members thereof, if one wants to specify their sex, are referred to respectively as 'mels' and 'fems'. However, there is i believe some spillover -- use of the morphemes 'mel' and 'fem' to mean 'male' and 'female' of any (sapient) Terran species -- i'm pretty sure i remember a female dolphin being referred to as a 'fem-fin' in Uplift War. < Paul T. Kershaw suggests that the situation I posit may have been the case previously in English: > Two comments: (1) I think freshman is dying slower than chairman etc. because (At least in my neck of the woods) there is an acceptable and widely-used abbreviation which is gender-neutral: "frosh". Perhaps another reason is that it's not easily broken down. A chairman is one who chairs. A fireman is one who puts out fires. But in what way does a "freshman" "fresh"? Witness "shaman" which I haven't seen attacked either (probably also for its rarity) as not being "sha" (eeugh!) (2) It was my understanding that English did have the situation you suggested, i.e., that "man" meant "person" and something longer meant "male person" (to wit, "werman") all those years ago. From this derives, of course, "werewolf" -- which would be male, necessarily. A female lycanthrope must be a "wifwolf" (or "wowolf"). (The last two words are mine own: let me nip linguistic rumor in the bud). The fact that it changed away from the werman/woman dichotomy suggests some sort of social problem with it, and until we fix the problem, the form would continue to be unstable. -- Dopobatchinye! < Forrest Richey is not sanguine about the prospects of getting feminists to agree. John Cowan confirms David Brin's fictional usage and supplies additional details: > Well, David Brin's sf novels >Sundiver<, >Startide Rising<, and >The Uplift War< use the word "man" to refer to any >Homo sapiens< (as distinct from "'fin" for >Tursiops amicus< and "chim" for >Pan sp.<); the terms for female and male men are "fem" and "mel" respectively. Short, English in style, and actually workable. < I thank you all for your thoughtful and provocative observations. The rule, I believe, is that with any marked pair, one member will serve double duty as the generic. I was fishing for counter examples, where there is a triad of terms, one generic and two specific, particularly where the specifics are morphologically derived from the generic. But now something else fascinates me: How is it that "woman" itself has survived attack? Leland McCleary English / Universidade de Sao Paulo / Brasil mccleary@fox.cce.usp.br -------------------------------------------------------------------------- LINGUIST List: Vol-4-562. ------------ End Forwarded Message ------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 15:23:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beth Lee Simon Subject: second section on gender pronouns, etc. From: IN%"linguist@tamsun.tamu.edu" "The Linguist List" To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST Received: from uafsysb.uark.edu by wigate.nic.wisc.edu; Tue, 03 Aug 93 07:05 CDT Received: from UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU by UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0165; Tue, 03 Aug 93 07:04:39 CDT Received: from UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UAFSYSB) by UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 9757; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 07:04:39 -0500 Message-Id: <23080307050881@wigate.nic.wisc.edu> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 23:59:48 -0500 From: The Linguist List Reply-To: The Linguist List Sender: The LINGUIST Discussion List To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST Comments: To: linguist@tamvm1.tamu.edu Comments: cc: 4.596@tamsun.tamu.edu, Gender@tamsun.tamu.edu, Periphery@tamsun.tamu.edu, and@tamsun.tamu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LINGUIST List: Vol-4-596. Mon 02 Aug 1993. ISSN: 1068-4875. Lines: 93 Subject: 4.596 Gender and Periphery Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar: Texas A&M U. Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan U. Asst. Editor: Ron Reck -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 12:22:18 CDT From: Michael Picone Subject: Re: 4.585 Qs: Emoticons, Periphery, Gender -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 12:22:18 CDT From: Michael Picone Subject: Re: 4.585 Qs: Emoticons, Periphery, Gender In response to Paul T. Kershaw's posting on gender and periphery: The use of pluralized _women_ in constructions such as _women doctors_ has some parallel in a similar use of _men_. Compare _women-folk_, _men-folk_; _women friends_, _men friends_. Even _men doctors_, though not usual, would be acceptable. There is also a series after the pattern of _gentleman-farmer_ (1749) (gentleman-commoner, gentleman-rider, etc.) that are all pluralized in both constituents: _gentlemen-farmers_, etc. Using _women_ to accompany a professional designation normally or formerly reserved to men has a long history in English. The following attestations come from the OED (2nd ed., 1989): wymmen syngers 1382, woemen officers 1494, women ministers 1577, women doctors 1622, women-actors 1632, women-Anglers 1661. Other interesting early attestations are: women saints c.1610, women slaues (=slaves) 1614, and without pluralization: woman-physician 1533, woman-surgeon 1628. Compare _man nurse_ (1530). Using preposed _woman/women_ and especially _man/men_ in all sorts of metaphorical, fantasmagorical and teratological concoctions also enjoys a long history: man-devill (1600), man-Monster (1611, Shakespeare), Men-monster Manglers (1632), men-cattle (1814), men-sphinxes (1864), man-dog (1884), men-machines (1904), etc. The origin of the double pluralization, which is not permitted elsewhere, is an interesting puzzle. Though such double pluralization would be usual for French, the first possible foreign influence that comes to mind, it is unlikely that French is the source since parallel formations in that language didn't really become widespread until the 19th century, when the fantasmagorical varieties started appearing: hommes-oiseaux (1828), homme-loup (1831), hommes-chevaux (1862, Hugo), homme-chien (1873), femme-sirene (1885). In the twentieth century, this procedure was recruited to add designation of female gender where needed: une femme-medecin/des femmes-medecins. As shown, the addition of preposed _femme_ converts the whole costruct to feminine grammatical gender. In only a few cases does one find variation with a postposed version: une femme professeur, un professeur femme. The only earlier use in French has to do with double +human appositions and human + divine appositions: homme-femme (=androgyne, 1569), femme-fille (1759), homme-dieu (1797). Getting back to English pluralization, it seems to me that the irregularity of the English plurals _women_ and _men_ is relevant. Since English also allows compounding by adjunction of the possessive case, to allow double pluralizations generally would lead to structural confusion: cf. boyswear, *boys friends. The exception to this is in those cases where an irregular plural obtains that does not require /-s/ adjunction. Thus _menswear_, (not *manswear) _men friends_, because genetivity and plurality do not have overlapping surface representation. So what about _child prodigies_? Should *children prodigies have been acceptable according to my logic? Well, first off the linguistic legacy is different for _children_ which hasn't had the same combinatorial precedent handed down, perhaps partly because _childer/children_ has been less stable over the centuries, the latter finally winning out by analogy to _men_ & _women_. Also, for purely pragmatic reasons there has been far less historical need for compounds involving _child/children_ in both artistic and professional vocabulary. _Child prodigy_ comes with other baggage. It has lexicalized as a compound in a way that _woman doctor_ has not and this is an added factor inhibiting pluralization in a language like English where, for reasons possibly related in part to the foregoing, compound-internal pluralization is not allowed (this is not a universal, in French is it allowed for these kinds of compounds: enfants prodiges). Still, it seems to me that _children_ enjoys more liberty in combination with other nouns than do, for example, _girls_, _boys_, _ladies_, etc. where there is /-s/ adjunction. One might invent _children folk_ and _children friends_ but never *boys folk, *girls folk, *ladies folk, *boys friends, *girls friends, *ladies friends. Michael Picone U Alabama -------------------------------------------------------------------------- LINGUIST List: Vol-4-596. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 15:24:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beth Lee Simon Subject: 3rd section on gender marking From: IN%"linguist@tamsun.tamu.edu" "The Linguist List" To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST Subject: 4.595 Last Posting: Gender Markedness Received: from uafsysb.uark.edu by wigate.nic.wisc.edu; Tue, 03 Aug 93 07:04 CDT Received: from UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU by UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0163; Tue, 03 Aug 93 07:04:26 CDT Received: from UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UAFSYSB) by UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 9751; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 07:04:25 -0500 Message-Id: <23080307045519@wigate.nic.wisc.edu> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 23:57:09 -0500 From: The Linguist List Reply-To: The Linguist List Sender: The LINGUIST Discussion List Subject: 4.595 Last Posting: Gender Markedness To: Multiple recipients of list LINGUIST Comments: To: linguist@tamvm1.tamu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LINGUIST List: Vol-4-595. Mon 02 Aug 1993. ISSN: 1068-4875. Lines: 201 Subject: 4.595 Last Posting: Gender Markedness Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar: Texas A&M U. Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan U. Asst. Editor: Ron Reck -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 13:13:24 EST From: mark Subject: re: 4.562 Gender Markedness 2) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 06:38:54 EDT From: Paul.F.Schaffner@um.cc.umich.edu Subject: gender markedness 3) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 20:40:21 -0500 From: fcosws@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven Schaufele) Subject: Hann redux & epicene pronouns -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 13:13:24 EST From: mark Subject: re: 4.562 Gender Markedness Herb Stahlke asks if there are contexts besides soccer (in which the warning cry "Man on!" is used in female as well as male games) in which other considerations outweigh the demands of gender sensitivity. I recall reading that the Navy has explicitly NOT modified the emergency alert "Man overboard!" Urgency seems to be an overriding factor, and little wonder! Mark A. Mandel Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200 320 Nevada St. : Newton, Mass. 02160, USA : mark@dragonsys.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 06:38:54 EDT From: Paul.F.Schaffner@um.cc.umich.edu Subject: gender markedness Leland Mccleary asks for a new noun marked for male gender ("xoman"), so as to leave "man" unmarked. The historical form fitting this bill is of course "wepman" (OED wapman, OE waepmann), the male equivalent of the female "wifman." Lawman's Brut, e.g., offers "Leode nere thar nane, ne wapmen ne wifmen" ('No people were there, neither men nor women'); and the Owl & the Nightingale mentions "luve..bitweone wepmon & wimmane." "Wepmon" is a contraction of "Waepned-mann" = 'male man'; literally 'armed ('weaponed') man.' Also, regarding "they/them" in place of "he/she/her/him," has it occurred to no one that actively encouraging this usage on the grounds of sensitivity might impede or delay its widespread use? That is, that it might serve to mark the usage as distinctive of feminists? (Pronouns have in the past seemed susceptible to such ideological marking, and even the adoption of "you" was not without its struggles, as Quakers can attest.) Or is this wholly implausible? Paul Schaffner usergfnk@umichum (BITNET) Middle English Dictionary usergfnk@um.cc.umich.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 20:40:21 -0500 From: fcosws@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven Schaufele) Subject: Hann redux & epicene pronouns There have been a few more postings, some to me personally but some to the List, since i posted (LINGUIST 4-538) an explanation of the epicene pronoun 'hann' that i have been using. Some of these have included questions and challenges, some of which i will try to address here. One question boils down to 'what's wrong with/why can't you use *they* as an epicene pronoun?' There are two answers to that. One is theological and may not be of much general interest (though i will give it briefly here), the other more, i think, specifically linguistic. Both turn on the fact that, for me at least, 'they' is still basically a plural form, and serviceable as a generic pronoun only in the sense that crowds are inherently generic. (1) As a progressive Christian, i am no longer willing to refer to God consistently or typically as 'He', although i have no qualms about referring to the historical human Jesus by that pronoun. But as an orthodox Christian, i am not willing to refer to Hann as 'They'. And as a style-conscious English-speaker, i insist on having some pronoun i can use in such contexts. (2) As Michael Newman points out (at the beginning of his 1993 Columbia dissertation A Theoretical and Descriptive Study of Epicene Pronouns: the Linguistics of a Prescriptive Problem), there are actually a variety of environments in which an epicene pronoun might be desirable, and English-speakers may vary as to what they will accept in each of these different environments; 'they' may not be equally acceptable in all of them. I give his examples (with the appropriate form of 'they' inserted into the pronominal slot, and brackets and indices to indicate co-referencing), organized according to my own judgments. (a) Somebody(i) might at that time contradict their(i) own position. (b) [Every student](i) continued in the program, and the results showed that they(i) profited from the experience. In these cases, had i not the option of using 'hann(s)' i would have no qualms about using 'they', and would not be startled by others' using it. (c) ?[The typical American high school student](i) believes that their(i) life will be more difficult than their(i) parents' was. (d) ?When [a person](i) looks at themselves(i) in the mirror, what might they(i) see? For me, these are a little awkward. They would be much improved if some relevant NP or verb were pluralized: (c') [The typical American high school student](i) believes that their(i) _lives_ will be more difficult than their(i) parents' _were_. (d') When [people](i) _look_ at themselves(i) in the mirror, what might they(i) see? Note that, in each of the examples so far, although the pronoun's antecendent may be grammatically singular it refers either to a set of undefined but possibly large cardinality or to an individual as merely a representative member of such a set. Thus the use of an etymologically plural pronoun can be justified (for me) on the basis of reference to such a set. In the following examples, however, it is clearly unique, individual human beings that are being referred to as such, and if i didn't have access to a pronoun clearly marked (in my own grammar) as [-plural, +epicene] i would be forced to avoid any personal pronoun at all by circumlocution (e.g. 'this person'). (e) You never told me you had [a pen pal in Spain](i). *Do you have a picture of them(i)? (f) Paul has [a new assistant](i) --You're kidding! *Have you met them(i)? (In fact, if i were to hear such usages, i would, i think, interpret them thus: 'The speaker is trying hard not to betray hanns assumptions about the sex of the pen-pal/assistant. Bet she's female.') In short, the reason i can't use 'they' as an epicene pronoun is that it is acceptable to me in only some but not all of the environments in which i find such a pronoun desirable. I would note that those environments that are most commonly raised, sarcastically by my challengers as well as seriously by prescriptive grammarians, as examples of the 'inadmissability' of 'they' as singular epicene, e.g. (a-b) above, are precisely the ones in which it is most acceptable to me. Further comments have come from people more deeply familiar with the Scandinavian (= North Germanic) languages than i, a native English-speaker. Some of them are disturbed by the adoption as an epicene form of what looks, from their background, like a blatant masculine pronoun. It has never been, nor is it now, any intention of mine to offend my Scandinavian colleagues. And if i were speaking or writing Icelandic i would certainly not want to use 'hann' where an epicene form would be appropriate. But i am here using English, and it is not unheard of for a word to be borrowed from one language to another and to undergo a semantic shift along the way. Witness 'beef', 'pork', 'veal', and 'mutton', which in Norman French all referred to animals, or 'hamburger' or 'wiener', which in German are adjectives derived from the names of cities, but which all in English refer only to types of food. As i said before, my goal in adopting 'hann' was to fill a personal need. The fact that English had already adopted a pronominal paradigm from Old Norse (i.e., 'they' itself) encouraged me to consider such a source. I was quite aware that in Old Norse and Modern Icelandic 'hann' is specifically masculine. But my attraction to it was compounded by its (near-)homonymy with the Finnish 'han', which is truly epicene in the sense of being clearly without gender referent (Finnish having no grammatical gender at all). If my Scandinavian colleagues would prefer, i would be willing to at least consider striking from it the extra 'n'. I have not done so in the past mainly in order to avoid confusion with the (extremely masculine) 'Star Wars' character Han Solo (whose name is pronounced the same way). Sincerely, Steven ------ Dr. Steven Schaufele c/o Department of Linguistics 712 West Washington Ave. University of Illinois Urbana, IL 61801 4088 Foreign Languages Building 707 South Mathews Street 217-344-8240 Urbana, IL 61801 fcosws@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu *** O syntagmata linguarum liberemini humanarum! *** **** Nihil vestris privari nisi obicibus potestis! **** -------------------------------------------------------------------------- LINGUIST List: Vol-4-595. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 17:12:52 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: JANE EYRE Subject: new video series Has anyone previewed the new seven-part video series called Feminine/Masculine: Gender and Social Change? It's being advertised as highlights from research supported by the Rockefeller Foundation. I can't tell from the flyer how feminist it is, whether it would be useful in intro to WS classes, etc. They don't offer a preview, and who can sit through six or seven tapes all at once anyway? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who knows more about this series. Thanks. S2.kkh@isumvs.bitnet. Kathy Hickok, Iowa State U. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 23:32:37 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 22 Aug 1993 15:08:45 CDT from pauline, you're right of course. i'm not ambitious (uh-oh - how did i get to b e a tenured full professor?) i probably use the master's tools in political work, eg, my current campaign to change and improve cuny's sexual harassment policy. I not only did the research to write a new policy but also used strategies to organize activities on campuses, identified and used pressure points to negotiate with cuny's officials and lawyers, including public exposur e and hints at vulnerbility to lawsuits. are these the master's tools? beatrice ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 22:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: wife-beating in literature V.S. Naipaul's *A House for Mr. Biswas* has a disturbing sub-text of wife beating. Published in 1961. Some students find the casual reference to abuse of children as well as women very hard to deal with. Wendy Burton, University-College/Fraser Valley burton@fvc.bc.ca . send ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:54:58 +0300 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: naomy graetz Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In-Reply-To: <9308240513.AA03266@umd5.umd.edu> Here is an up to date listing. Please continue to send more. WIFE BEATING IN LITERATURE 1. The Color Purple 2. Sula 3. Possessing the Secret of Joy (author ??) 4. Lee Smith's novels (e.g.????) 5. Margaret Atwood's novels (e.g. ???) 6. Taming of Shrew 7. Zora Neal Hurston, Their Eyes were Watching 8. Anne Bronte, Tenant of Wildfell Hall 9. Olivia Goldsmith, First Wives Club 10. Tina Turner , Me Turner 11. V.s. Naipaul, A House for Mrs. Biswas (1961) 12. Toni Morrison, Bluest Eye 13. Amy Tan, The Kitchen God's Wife 14. Agnes Smedley, Daughter of Earth 15. Andrea Dworkin, Mercy 16. Faulkner, "Spotted Horses" (short story) Please keep sending more, and feel free to fill in missing bibliographic information--as more comes in , I'll edit it. Naomi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:47:16 +0200 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ursula Doleschal Subject: Resubscribe Dear editor, I m sorry to have to do it this way - I was subscribed to WMST-L, then ceiving messages since I was on vacation and during that time my computer was sent to repair where in due course my mailbox with all its informaiton concerning your list got lost, alas! Please, resubscribe me to WMST_L from now on! Yours Ursula DOleschal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 06:55:00 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: RHODA UNGER Subject: Re: Ph.D. program You will probably be receiving a number of responses to this query now that APA is over. I am not a clinical psychologist, but I would put in a plug for the counseling program at the University of Kentucky. Judy Worell has done a wonderful job in creating a feminist, supportive, and challenging PH.D. program. If you contact me privately, I will send you her email address. Rhoda Unger unger@apollo.montclair.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 07:56:01 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: lin collette Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:54:58 +0300 from The book by Tina Turner is not Me Turner, but I Tina. lin collette ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 07:56:51 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: lin collette Subject: Re: Ph.D. program In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Aug 1993 06:55:00 EST from I would suggest that those interested in alternative education might want to consider the Union Institute in Cincinnati, Ohio. Union is a low-residency program styled on the British tutorial system (it's closest equivalent), and is one of the original "University without walls" programs. It is working with the APA on its psychology programs and offers, I believe, clinical, profession- al, as well as other psychology programs. There is a strong feminist slant at Union (some say it's too strong!) and a strong left-liberal slant among its faculty and student body. It is also a good place for women's studies. For info, call 1-800-486-3116. BTW, it is accredited and well-respected. Lin Collette ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:35:00 GMT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Sandra Basgall <0005575992@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: first of the sections on gender marking/pronouns A few years ago while in Mexico City at the Colegio de Mexico, I heard an interesting story. The linguists there had taken the feminized words of traditionally male professions and surveyed what ordinary Mexicans thought the words might mean -- professora, abagada, etc. To their surprise, instead of meaning a woman professor or a woman lawyer, the majority of the people thought they meant the wife of _____! Sandra Basgall 557-5992@MCIMAIL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:24:15 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Mindy Fiala Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature The author of *Possessing the Secret of Joy* is Alice Walker. It continues the stories of some of the characters in *The Color Purple*. Mindy Fiala ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:38:44 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Mindy Fiala Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature *The Color Purple* is by Alice Walker, *Sula* is by Toni Morrison and *The Taming of the Shrew* is of course, Shakespeare. Two of Atwood's novels that might work (although it has been a long time since I read them are *Surfacing* and *The Handmaid's Tale*. Mindy Fiala ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:47:02 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Consuelo Lopez Springfield Subject: Mother Jones on "Women's Studies" Has anyone seen Karen Lehrman's "Our Minds, Our Selves: Is Feminist Education limiting Her Potential?" in Mother Jones? It is a scathing attack on feminist teaching. Consider this: "Unfortunately, women's studies students may not be as well equipped to see through shoddy feminst scholarship as they are through patriarchal myths and constructs. One reason may be the interdisciplinary nature of the programs, which offers students minimal grounding in any of the traditional disciplines." Also: "Terms like sexism, racism, and homophobia have bloated beyond all recognition. . ." Lots of cheap shots, inadequate research, and downright nastiness. Consuelo Lopez Springfield CLACS, Indiana cspringf@ucs.indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:30:43 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Jo Malin Subject: Re: wife beating in lit I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 24-Aug-1993 09:28am EDT From: Jo Malin JMALIN Dept: Talent Search Tel No: 773-7718 TO: Remote RSCS/NJE Network User ( _JNET%WMST-L@UMDD ) Subject: re: wife beating in lit add--Dorothy Allison's (sp?) Bastard Out of Carolina. Jo Malin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:09:40 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "L. Banaszak" Subject: Pope Joan (?) To add to the discussion of the female pope, I remember hearing in my old Catholic school days that her true identity was discovered because she became pregnant and actually started to give birth during a public ceremony. I no longer remember where this embellishment came from -- certainly not catechism class. It may have been a rumor running through the school yard, but I think it came from my mother who was never a big fan of the Catholic church. I'm curious if there are any references to this in the works which people have named. Lee Ann Banaszak s1.lab@isumvs or s1.lab@isumvs.iastate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:05:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Virginia Sapiro Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature On wife beating -- and abuse generally: Mary Wollstonecraft. The Wrongs of Woman, or Maria V. Sapiro Department of Political Science University of Wisconsin- Madison sapiro@polisci.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:24:58 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: la femme armee Subject: Re: Mother Jones on "Women's Studies" I read the _Mother Jones_ article, too, and I agree, it's pretty bad. Susan Faludi will have a response to it in the next issue of _MJ_. Lyn Ellen Burkett music theory Indiana University lburkett@ucs.indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:29:48 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Gary Daily Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature I would suggest Russell Banks, _Affliction_. Gary Daily Indiana State University ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:25:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Tracy Wahl Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature I was interested in Laurie's comments about Taming of the Shrew and wife beating. After having just seen what I considered to be a really good (and ironic) rendition of this play, I've been wondering how the play could be interpreted if taught in, say, an Intro to Women Studies class. Any experience teaching this play? The version I saw seemed more of a critique on societal expectations of female submission than a reinforcement of wife beating. I wonder though if I would have interpreted it this way if I didn't already have the critique in my own head. Tracy Wahl TWahl@polisci.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:55:41 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Paula Gaber Subject: wife abuse in novels In light of the recent discussion regarding novels which include wife abuse, I'd like to remind everyone that "Teaching About Violence Against Women: An Interdisciplinary Resource Guide" is available on the inforM Women's Studies Database. The guide was put together by a women's studies class at Gettysburg College and includes a section specifically about incorporating the issue of wife abuse into a course about women writers. It gives reading suggestions, sample discussion questions, and further resources for faculty. To access the teaching guide, telnet to INFORM.UMD.EDU. (If you do not know how to telnet, contact a local computer wizard, or try typing "telnet inform.umd.edu" at the main prompt of your computer account). Hit return to set the default terminal type or type "?" for a list of choices. Use either your arrow keys or number keys to select -> 4. Educational Resources -> 12. Women's Studies -> 7. Gender Issues -> 7. Violence+Women -> 3. Teaching Guide The Gopher interface has a feature that allows users to send files to their e-mail accounts. Scroll to the end of the file and type "m", or at any time press "q" (for quit), then "m". The inforM system is also accessible by anonymous ftp. FTP to INFORM.UMD.EDU. Login as "anonymous", and use your mail address as a password. Choose the "info" directory by typing "cd info". The command "cd [directory name]" will change the directory. The commands "dir" or "ls" will display a list of files in that directory. Use the command "get [filename]" to download a file into your account. The directory pathname for the Women's Studies Database is info/Teaching/WomensStudies. Your local Gopher System may be set up to automatically link to the Womens's Studies Database. Check the "Other Systems" or "Other Gophers" directory or ask your system administrator for help. Please remember that the system is case sensitive. Anything that appears in quotes must be typed exactly as it is here. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me. +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Paula Gaber inforM, Room 4343 Coordinator, Women's Studies Database Computer Science Center gaber@inform.umd.edu University of Maryland (301) 405-2939 College Park, Maryland 20742 =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:02:23 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Dr. Roseanne L. Hoefel" Subject: Master's Tools While I find the discussion of Audre Lorde's allusion to the Master's Tools stimulating and challenging, I'm surprised that none of the responses thus far to the inquiry--at least to my knolwedge--mention the important context of "Master" in terms of slavery, both literal and figurative enslavement. To be sure, the replies which address oppression and power dynamics at least indirectly allude to this crucial context, but I wonder what our reflections might look like if we were to FOREGROUND this aspect? Roseanne HOEFEL@alma.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:42:53 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Allan Hunter Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 23 Aug 1993 23:32:37 EDT from On Mon, 23 Aug 1993 23:32:37 EDT Beatrice Kachuck said: b > i probably use the master's tools in political >work, eg, my current campaign to change and improve cuny's sexual harassment >policy. I not only did the research to write a new policy but also used >strategies to organize activities on campuses, identified and used pressure >points to negotiate with cuny's officials and lawyers, including public exposur >e and hints at vulnerbility to lawsuits. are these the master's tools? > beatrice Excellent example. There are people living in the Master's house other than the Master and Beatrice is using his tools to make life in it a little less hostile for them. A person with an eye on the radical goal of dismantling such power systems as conventional "offices" with their hierarchical hegemonies, and pressure politics, and get-along-go-along strategies, not to mention coercion and the purchasing of favors with other favors, etc. etc., could argue that this is not ENOUGH by itself; someone has to also be thinking about and working on alternative ways of bringing people to mutually agreed-on decisions that DON't depend on those good-old-boy techniques. I've heard some self-appointed "radicals" (Marxists being particularly inclined, but some separatist-radical feminists also do this) who would accuse Beatrice of becoming a "part of the system" and therefore selling out for this reason. I've ALSO heard people dismiss the need to attend to the more visionary goals, such as experimenting with alternatives to the patriarchal systematic way of doing things, as "ostrich politics", as if ONLY by seizing the Master's tools in hands can the oppressed ever accomplish anything. I think Lorde was replying to some anti-separatist beat-the-boys-at-their-own-game sentiments when she made the "tools" observation, and I think she's right, but I don't think it's a binary either/or proposition. As academics, many of us are very much inside the house; sometimes we are most effective when using his tools; but not if we buy into the belief that anyone who tries other tactics or creates other tools is out of touch with "reality". As per Pauline Bart's observation about sociolo- logical methodocracy, for instance. - Allan Hunter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:19:12 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Dr. Roseanne L. Hoefel" Subject: LIT Crit Suggestions I was going to reply privately to Jennifer Manlowe's inquiry, but thought others on the list would also be interested in the following. I am using NANCY WALKER's "Case Studies in Contemporary Criticism" edition of THE AWAKENING in my Women's Literature course. This $6.00 bargain by St. Martin's Press (Bedford Books, 1993) includes the complete text of the novel and a critical history of the novel as well as 5 excellent, accessible critical essays: Showalter (feminist); Margit Stange (new historicist); Cynthia Griffin Wolff (psychoanalytic); Patricia Yaeger (deconstruction); Paula Treichler (reader-response). Ideal for a WOMEN's lit. course since even the criticism is by women! Each chapter contains a lucid, though not reductive, synopsis of the critical approach to literature, followed by a thoughtful application of it to the novel. I also recommend the beautiful movie version of this novel, GRAND ISLE (in most video stores; Kelly McGillis stars and directs it). For Alice Walker and Toni Morrison's novels, try the excellent critical collection by Barbara Christian and Tate's CONVERSATIONS WITH BLACK WOMEN WRITERS. I agree with Barbara Saur re: Hurston's own novel of awakening and also recommend Gloria Naylor's MAMA DAY and for several excrcuiating awakenings, her BAILEY'S CAFE; for an extremely painful "awakening" Carolivia Herron's THEREAFTER JOHNNIE, which understandably (once you read it) took 18 years to write... I wonder if Erdrich's TRACKS would also work? Or, for more traditional fare, Cather's MY MORTAL ENEMY (two awakenings, one by a central character, one by the female narrator/observer)? Enough for this public space--will send more thoughts privately. Good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:32:55 MET-1 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ronald Camstra Subject: Pope Joan Hi, since this subject seems to interest more people I'm forwarding a message I recieved from another list. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Reply-to: An open discussion forum for medievalist feminists From: Jeffrey Cohen To: Multiple recipients of list MEDFEM-L Pope Joan is purely a fiction. Beginning in the 11th & 12th centuries (at that very time when devotion to Mary was becoming a significant socioreligious phenomenon) stories began to circulate about a woman known as "Pope Joan," who was supposed to have held the papacy for several years in the 9th century after a lifetime cross-dressed as a monk. Impregnated by the devil, she gave birth to a child during a holy procession through the streets of Rome, and died in shame during labor. Clarissa Atkinson has written of the story that is "about disorder, and about the filth and chaos that ensue when objects and persons and events are out of place - a woman on the throne of Peter, a child in the belly of the pope, a birth in a religious procession. The woman whose learning and virtue carried her to the heights was destroyed by motherhood...The notion of a female pope was scandalous; of a pregnant pope, ludicrous; of a pope giving birth, disastrous" (fr. _The Oldest Vocation: Christian Motherhood in the Middle Ages_, Ithaca: 1991). Pope Joan reified the metaphoric language of maternity which *Ecclesia*, the church envisioned as a woman, had been using for centuries (Familair iconographic representations of the medieval church, for example, include Giovanni Pisano's 14th century *Ecclesia lactans*, who feeds the faithful with her breast milk). But because Joan replaced the symbolic with the actual, she brought forth not Christians cleansed of "the spot of childbed taint" - as only the Mother Church can - but a monstrous, sterile birth that (like Original Sin) is death. ---Jeffrey Jerome Cohen Committee on Degrees in History and Literature Harvard University ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:47:55 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Kathy Feltey Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:54:58 +0300 from Possessing the Secret of Joy is Alice Walker's. Waverly Place by Susan Brownmiller is another. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:25:53 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In regard to the current discussion on literature about wife-beating, Suzette Hadin Elgin's novel Judas Rose, the second in a trilogy of science fiction works, deals with a future in which women have truly become legally second class citizens-children really--and in which wife-beating has been made a criminal offense. It might be worth a look. Laurie Finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:31:45 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature Traci raises interesting questions about Taming of the Shrew. I like to include it in such discussions because it is such a mainstream, canonical play and yet if you produce it straight, it can make you quite uncomfortable about the relationships between Petruccio and Kate. AFter all the play is about "taming," the term indicating what one might do to a wild animal (the persistence of this image in relationship to wives in English comedies is another whole issue). Generally the relationship is rendered comically to dissipate I think the violence between the two protagonists. But I have read accounts of productions which really play up the sexual violence, pushing the play almost toward pornography. I raised the issue when it first came up primarily to provoke some discussion about it. But I like the idea of exposing the sexual violence within such an icon of the English literary tradition. I know there have been "feminist" productions of this play, but I always find them a bit difficult to swallow. I never saw this, but a colleague of mine once showed a video that included interviews with actors who did "Taming" at Shakespeare in the Park in NY. One of the actors was Meryl Streep, who played Kate. This colleague was appalled at what she read as Streep's decidedly unfeminist slant on Kate. Apparently the class on this video created a furor that was legendary in the department for years after. Laurie Finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:30:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: wife-beating in literature The title for the V.S. Naipaul book is A House for Mr. Biswas. Wendy Burton (burton@fvc.bc.ca) University-College/Fraser Valley ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:17:23 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Arnie Kahn Subject: Speakers Bureau I have obtained a wealth of information about setting up a speaker's bureau, including technical information and ideas regarding what to include. Unfortunately, I started this project too close to the beginning of classes and I'm not going to be able to follow up, at least not until sometime next May. If anyone is willing to take over the project, I'd be happy to forward the file of information to you. If you're unsure or just want to see what's in the file, let me know and I'll forward it to you. Arnie Kahn fac_askahn@vax1.acs.jmu.edu fac_askahn@jmuvax ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:25:31 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Martha Mestl Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature In-Reply-To: <9308240603.AA12297@bashful.u.washington.edu> On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, naomy graetz wrote: > Here is an up to date listing. Please continue to send more. > 3. Possessing the Secret of Joy (Alice Walker?) > Please keep sending more, and feel free to fill in missing bibliographic > information--as more comes in , I'll edit it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:26:22 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Patricia Patterson Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature Streetcar Named Desire comes to mind. Tricia Patterson, Univ. of Richmond ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:52:58 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Paula Gaber Subject: inforM update: Elizabeth Barrett Browning poetry The following files and/or directories have been added to the inforM Women's Studies Database: Women's Studies/ReadingRoom/Poetry/ElizabethBarrettBrowning The complete text of _Sonnets from the Portuguese_ and selected poems from _Poems of 1844_ are now available on-line. To access the inforM database, telnet to INFORM.UMD.EDU. (If you do not know how to telnet, contact a local computer wizard, or try typing "telnet inform.umd.edu" at the main prompt of your computer account). Hit return to set the default terminal type or type "?" for a list of choices. Use either your arrow keys or number keys to select -> 4. Educational Resources -> 12. Women's Studies The Gopher interface has a feature that allows users to send files to their e-mail accounts. Scroll to the end of the file and type "m", or at any time press "q" (for quit), then "m". The inforM system is also accessible by anonymous ftp. FTP to INFORM.UMD.EDU. Login as "anonymous", and use your mail address as a password. Choose the "info" directory by typing "cd info". The command "cd [directory name]" will change the directory. The commands "dir" or "ls" will display a list of files in that directory. Use the command "get [filename]" to download a file into your account. The directory pathname for the Women's Studies Database is "info/Teaching/WomensStudies". Your local Gopher System may be set up to automatically link to the Womens's Studies Database. Check the "Other Systems" or "Other Gophers" directory or ask your system administrator for help. Please remember that the system is case sensitive. Anything that appears in quotes must be typed exactly as it is here. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me. +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Paula Gaber inforM, Room 4343 Coordinator, Women's Studies Database Computer Science Center gaber@inform.umd.edu University of Maryland (301) 405-2939 College Park, Maryland 20742 =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:58:48 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Karen S. Holbrook" Subject: Re: Female pope Joanne Have you seen the play Top Girls by Joan(?) Churchill? It was through this play that I first heard of Pope Joanna. Although in this play she is called Pope Joan. I have heard that there is very little to use to verify her existence . +=============================================+ Karen Holbrook e2cs009@fre.towson.edu Psychology Department office : (301)689-4742 Frostburg State University Frostburg, Maryland 21532 +=============================================+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:33:01 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: WAGNER Subject: Re: Ph.D. program In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Aug 1993 06:55:00 EST from If your friend/student is a social worker (MSW), she might want to check out our new PhD program here at Indiana University School of Social Work. We not only have several feminists on faculty but most are well grounded in qualitative methodology, and social work has a tradition of questioning theoretical authority. I'll send more info to anyone requesting such (my private address, please, not list) Marion Wagner, IBOH100@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 19:59:12 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Michael Spencer Subject: Pope Joan (SMTP Id#: 3152) - Reply I found 1 entry at the Library of Congress (for Pope Joan), but 47 entries for "female Pope" at the UC "Melvyl" public access library. The first 10 entries are below. Does anyone need to know how to use Gopher software to access these libraries? Mike Spencer mspencer@nps.navy.mil Search request: FI SU FEMALE POPE Search result: 47 records at all libraries Display: DISPLAY 1. Allacci, Leone, 1586-1669. Leonis Allatii Confutatio fabulae de Ioanna Papissa, ex monumentis Graecis / Bartoldus Nihusius recensuit, prologo atque epilogo auxit, nec non Telescopium adjunxit. Coloniae Agrippinae : Typis Iodoci Kalcovii & Sociorum, 1645. UCB Law Lib BQV192.E2 A388 1645 Rare CSL Sutro 282 A 2. Allacci, Leone, 1586-1669. Leonis Allatii Confvtatio fabvlae de Ionna papissa, ex monumentis graecis; Bartoldvs Nihvsivs recensuit, prologo atque epilogo auxit. Coloniae Agrippinae, typis Iodoci Kalcovii, 1645. UCLA Spec Coll Z 233 M3A416 3. Animadversiones chronologicae in Johannam Papissam Sam. Maresii contra anacrisin D. Blondelli restitutam / autore incognito, ex suspicione autem, Germano Orthodoxo. [S.l. : s.n.], 1661. UCB Law Lib BX958.F2 A54 1661 Rare 4. Blondel, David, 1591-1655. De Ioanna papissa : sive famosae quaestionis, an foemina ulla inter Leonem IV & Benedictum III, Romanos Pontifices, media sederit. Amstelaedami : Typis Johannis Bleau, 1657. UCB Law Lib BX958.F2 B654 1657 Rare 5. Blondel, David, 1591-1655. De Ioanna papissa: sive Famosae quaestionis, an foemina ulla inter Leonem IV, & Benedictum III, Romanos pontifices, media sederit, [anakrisis (romanized form)] Auctore Davide Blondello. Amstelaedami, J. Bleau, 1657. SRLF Spec.Col. BX 958 F2B62 Request at UCLA Special Collections. Type EXP SRLF for loan details. 6. Blondel, David, 1591-1655. Familier esclaircissement de la qvestion Si une femme a este assise au siege papal de Rome, entre Leon IV & Benoist III. par David Blondel. A Amsterdam, chez I. Blaev, 1647. UCB Law Lib BX958.F2 B654 Rare 7. Boureau, Alain. La Papesse Jeanne / Alain Boureau. Paris : Aubier, c1988. Series title: Collection historique. UCB Law Lib BX958.F2 B68 UCB Main BX958.F2 B68 1988 UCD Main Lib BX958.F2 B76 1988 UCLA URL BX 958 F2 B68 1988 8. Congnard, P. Traite contre l'eclarcissement donne par M. Blondel : en la question si une femme a este assise au siege papal de Rome, entre Leon IV & Benoist III / par le Sieur Congnard. A Savmvr : I. Ribotteav & A. Rovsselet, 1655. UCB Law Lib BX958.F2 C65 9. Cooke, Alexander, 1564-1632. Pope Joane./ A/ dialogve/ betvveene a Pro-/ testant and a/ Papist./ Mainfestly prouing, that a woman/ called Ioane, was Pope of Rome: against the/ surmises and obiections made to the contra-/ rie, by Robert... London, / Printed by Iohn Haviland, for William Garrat, and/ are to be sold at his shop in Pauls Church-yard,/ at the signe of the Buls Head. 1625. UCB Bancroft BX1767.C658 P6 1625 10. Curioses Gesprach im Reiche der Todten, zwischen der Pabstinn Johanna, und dem beruhmten Friderico Spanhemio, welcher die Wahrheit der Historie von dieser Pabstinn, in einem gelehrten Tractat, nachdrucklich behauptet... Franckfurth, Leipzig, 1741. UCLA Spec Coll PN 6070 C926 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 09:56:16 MET-1 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ronald Camstra Subject: female pope Joan Hi all, Thanks for the huge amount of information on pope Joan. What strikes me is that more than 90 percent of the people mailing me believes that it's a myth which is not true at all. Many of you ask for facts. >Are you sure this isn't somebody's pipe dream. I've never heard of a >female Pope. It may be true in some fairy tale but I for some reason >can't buy it. What facts do you have to back it up, I'd be very >interested. Thanks There are clear facts, though. For instance, in the Acta of the Vatican Concili of Konstanz, 1413, is writen: "and wasn't the church without a head and leader, when for two years and five months a woman, named Joan, was Pope?". It is part of the testimony of Johannes Huss (who was executed anyway). This phrase was officially published by the catholic church and can be reread in the official Acta. Ronald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 07:48:55 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: lin collette Subject: Re: female pope Joan In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 25 Aug 1993 09:56:16 MET-1 from I always thought that, like many myths, there was some basis in fact for a fem- ale Pope, or at least a contender. Somehow it seems to make sense to me that such an event could have occurred. lin collette ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 08:24:09 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Jane Elza Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: <9308241626.AA13418@umd5.umd.edu> Saul Alinsky, a 60's organizer, argued that one should use whatever was available. My favorite example is of a group of private school kids who wanted to dance but the school said no. Asked what they should do, Alinsky asked "what are you allowed to do?" They answered, "Chew gum." He siad , "do that." and they did-constantly. gum was on the walkways, parked under desks. It drove the administration crazy until they asked "what can we do to get you to stop chewing gum?" The kids got their dances. Just because the tools belong to the master doesn't mean they have to be used as the master intends. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 15:49:03 MST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Charlene E. Depner" Organization: PsychNet, Inc. Subject: Re: Speakers Bureau Hi Arnie! I spotted you at the the CWP session, but did not get over in time to say hello. I once did the Speakers' Bureau and just happen to be cleaning my basement this weekend. Would any of this "archive" be useful? Charli Depner Charlene_E._Depner@Psychnet.com **************************************************************** * ////// ---------------------- * // // "Electronic Networking For / PsychNet.Com / * ////// "Professional Psychology." /Serving Psychologists/ * // sychNet (1-800-541-2598) / World Wide / *// ----------------------- ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 15:55:03 MST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Charlene E. Depner" Organization: PsychNet, Inc. Subject: Re: wife-beating in litera It sounds as if you saw an exceptional rendition of this play (Where?). Couldn't the "capitulation" scene be played by breaking the proscenium with a broad wink to the audience? **************************************************************** * ////// ---------------------- * // // "Electronic Networking For / PsychNet.Com / * ////// "Professional Psychology." /Serving Psychologists/ * // sychNet (1-800-541-2598) / World Wide / *// ----------------------- ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 10:32:04 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: female pope Joan Whether or not there is a basis in fact for a female pope joan seems to me really of less interest than the kinds of anxiety being expressed by the belief that there was. I have been fascinated to read the responses that address that issue. Laurie Finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 10:35:17 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: masters' tools what Jane Eliza describes in her anecdote from Saul Alinski is what the French historian Michel de Certeau describes as "poaching." I have always quite liked Certeau's term because it so nicely describes the ways in which the oppressed turn their oppression to their own advantage. I have been in my own research in feminist theory quite interested in "poaching" as a concept to describe how we do theory. Laurie finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 16:50:33 MET-1 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ronald Camstra Subject: The life of Pope Joanna, part one ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Anton Oskamp" (Anton Oskamp is co-working with Ronald Camstra on the historical excursion into the life of Joanna, the female pope). I am reading the book Pope Joanna (translated from modern Greek into Durch by Gerrit Komrij in 1967). Phrases within ' ' are as close translations from the Dutch text as I could manage. >From the first chapter: England. Joanna's mother was called Judith, a high blonde goosegirl in the employ of a Saxon Baron. She became his mistress. When the baron grew tired of her, she was passed onto the winepourer, then to the cook, and finally to the cook's help. He traded her with a monk for a tooth of Saint Guthlac. The marriage was a happy one (strange that a monk be married - AO), and they made lots of love. One day he was called to cross the sea to preach. Het took his wife and went. First to France, then to woods of Westfalia. There the monk and Judith wandered round for 8 years. They had two beautiful kids, who were killed by people who weren't very impressed with the preachings of the monk. After the infanticide (massacre of the innocents?) they also cut of the monks private parts, to ensure that no new missionaries would emerge. Judith stayed faithful, and lighted many candles in the hope of giving birth again. Judith's prayers were fullfilled. Not, however, by immaculate conception, through the ear, but by two bowsmen of the Earl of Erfurt. They spotted here when she was spreading her husbands clothes in the grass to dry. 'The bowsmen then spreaded her on the green grass and reminded her forcefully of the True Destination of women on earth'. Nine months later Judith gave birth to a girl: 818 in Ingelheim (or Mainz). As all Great Historic People Joanna had her idiosyncracies during her youth: she wouldn't suckle on Wednesdays and Fridays. Every time Judith offered her breast, she turned away with digust. Even before she teethed, she could recite the Our Father in English, Latin and Greek. When Joanna was 8 her mother died. Joanna was taught the most varying things by her stepfather, and they made a living by visiting Courts and Fairs and performing a sort of Trivial Pursuit. First the monk would ask difficult questions and Joanna would answer, then the people gathered round the knowledable girl were allowed to fire questions. Joanna and the monk lived like this for another 5 years. Then the monk died in the cel of the hermit Arculphus, on the banks of the Main. Joanna was 16 and 'had a face rounder than an apple, blonde hair like those of Magdalena but uncombed like those of Medea, lips red as the mitre of a cardinal, promising endless pleasures, and full breasts as partridges.' Mourning the death of her stepfather on the banks of the Main, she has a vision. She is visited by two women. First by Saint Ida, 'a horny woman with bare chest', who encourages her to give herself to booze and men. The other (Saint Liobba) is clad in a black habit and holding a crucifix in front of her body. She encourages Joanna to join a cloister and to choose Jesus instead of a mortal husband and the Abbess' staff rather than the distaff (new word for me: it is a part of a wool spinning contraption; spindle - AO). Of course, the cloister wins. Then Saint Liobba shows Joanna her future: 'She saw herself sitting on a high throne, so high that her head, decorated with a triple diadem, hit the clouds, a white dove flew around her, and brought refreshment and relief with her flapping wings, a large mass was gathered round the throne, kneeling'. Joanna leaves immediately for the nearest cloister (Cloister of Saint Blithrude in Mosbach). However, she forgets to ask the way, and she gets lost. But, she meets Raleigh, Leguinus en Regibaldus, friends of her stepfather, who take care of her. End of chapter I. To be continued. Anton oskamp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 12:11:54 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Erin Hewitt Subject: lesbians & breast cancer I'm looking for emirical research on lesbians and breast cancer. It seems to be the current 'buzz' that lesbians are more likely to develop breast cancer than their straight counterparts. I've looked but I can't seem to locate any data on this. I did a CD-ROM search of Psychlit but nothing turned up in the way of incidence data. Any help would be appreciated. Please reply privately to: ECHEWITT@VM1.YORKU.CA Also, a note of thanks to all those who responded to my last query about the representation of relationships between women in fiction. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 12:06:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Tracy Wahl Subject: Re: wife-beating in litera I saw Taming of the Shrew at American Players Theatre in Spring Green, WI--don't know the director off hand. In any case, I went expecting to be turned off---being familiar with the premise of the play and generally agreeing with Laurie's assessment that the premise essentially equates women with animals in that they need to be "tamed." As I said before, however, I was surprised by the interpretation I saw. Rather than focusing on the need to tame Katherine, this version seemed to emphasize a complicit understanding between Kate and Petruchio (is that right?) whereby they went along with "society's" expectation that she be tamed but wherein Kate seemed to retain some power in defining the terms of the relationship. This was done with winks to the audience, twinkling eyes and a decided lack of violence or aggression. As I said before, I had a mixed reaction to the play since I recognized that the whole point was the "taming" of Kate. Never-the-less, something about this particular interpretation focused on societal expectations of relations of power rather than simply the domination of Kate by her husband-to-be. I thought this version was decidedly more complex than traditional versions which often emphasize that women's passions must be tamed in order for them to exist in "civilized" society. I think that a discussion of the version I saw (rather than the traditional version) might focus on how societal expectations of roles in relationships often reinforce relations of power and dominance. Such a discussion might also ask how such expectations can be challenged (and overcome) by the members of such a relationship. It might be that a discussion would conclude that this is simply not possible and that any attempt to interpret the Taming of the Shrew ironically simply results in reinforcement of existing social definitions of power. It was never-the-less very thought-provoking---especially in terms of how such a play could be approached in a classroom setting. Tracy TWahl@polisci.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 13:28:29 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Leslie Bender Subject: Feminist Jurisprudence Listserv A new feminist legal theories listserv has just begun. The list should provide a forum for discussing theories and issues regarding feminism and women and law. It is also a good place to share research questions, scholarship, calls for papers, job announcements, and provide support for people working in this area of law. To subscribe to the list from a non-suvm site, send electronic mail to the LISTSERV@SUVM with no subject line and 1 line in the message: SUBSCRIBE FEMJUR first_name last_name where first_name is your first name and last_name is your last name. If you are subscribing from a vm site, use the following command: Tell Listserv Sub FemJur first_name last_name. To send mail to the list, send it to FEMJUR@SUVM.BITNET. Since this is a brand new list, it might be helpful to introduce yourself and make suggestions about uses of the list. It would be very helpful if you use a subject line on your postings and if you always put your name and email address at the end of your letter/mail. Although I really do not know more about this than I have already shared with you above, if you have any questions, problems or suggestions, feel free to contact me. I look forward to sharing ideas with you. Leslie Bender PROFESSOR LESLIE BENDER COLLEGE OF LAW, E.I. WHITE BLDG. SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY SYRACUSE, NY 13244-1030 PHONE: (315) 443-4462 OR FAX:(315) 443-5394 E-MAIL: LBENDER@SUVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 14:02:15 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: judy long Subject: Pope Joan Doesn't it make sense that we would make up the history we need? (speaking of using the master's tools). --JUDY LONG, SOCIOLOGY DEPARTMENT, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY -- --103 SIMS IV, SYRACUSE, NY 13244-1230, USA (315)443-4580 -- --Bitnet: JLONG@SUVM Internet: JLONG@SUVM.ACS.SYR.EDU -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 11:35:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: *Taming* *Taming* *Taming* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 11:37:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: *taming* *taming* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 13:38:26 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Donna Jacques Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University Subject: Women in Science I am trying to find out if anyone is conducting research on Leona Woods MArshall, an American physicist work with Fermi on the first nuclear reactor. Any research or any investigation being done, any referrals to textx or biographical information would also be helpful. FLIB2256 - e-mail address: Flib2256.selu.edu Donna Jacques Reference Department Southeastern Louisana University Hammond, LA 70 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 11:46:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: *Taming* The recent issue of MS Magazine has a section on lesbians and breast cancer, which explains the misinterpretation of the study of risk factors and lesbians. The article gives the original study and its citations. Ms Magazine, May-June, 1993, pp44-45. The recent issue of MS Magazine has a section on lesbians and breast cancer, which explains the misinterpretation of the study of risk factors and lesbians. The article gives the original study and its citations. Ms Magazine, May-June, 1993, pp44-45. The recent issue of MS Magazine has a section on lesbians and breast cancer, which explains the misinterpretation of the study of risk factors and lesbians. The article gives the original study and its citations. Ms Magazine, May-June, 1993, pp44-45. he recent issue of MS Magazine has a section on lesbians and breast cancer, which explains the misinterpretation of the study of risk factors and lesbians. The article gives the original study and its citations. Ms Magazine, May-June, 1993, pp44-45. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 14:09:46 -0600 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Sharyl Bender Peterson Subject: Distaff clarification In Anton Oskamp's comment, he noted that "distaff" was a new word for him, which is "part of a spinning contraption - spindle." As a spinner myself, I felt a need to clarify. The distaff is actually a rod or staff that is either set next to, or sometimes attached to, a spinning-wheel. It is NOT part of the spindle at all. Instead, the distaff is wound around with the fiber to be spun -- most usually, flax fibers that are then spun into linen thread. Although there are some allusions in the spinning literature to the use of distaffs with wool, it is pretty uncommon. The fact that in most European cultures spinning was/is done by women led to the association of the tool -- the distaff -- with femininity; thus, expressions like the "distaff side" of the family. Sharyl Bender Peterson Colorado College speterson@ccnode.colorado.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 13:43:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: *Taming* Take 3 Learning to use the commands on e-mail is sure challenging. Let me try again to append a file. .en ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 13:46:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: *Taming* Again! I am trying to learn how this edit file works. Sorry about the junk messages. What about this? The theatre department of my institution did a production of *Taming* a few years ago. I was quite distressed by the traditional reading of the production. I spoke to members of the department about my concerns, and I asked that at least a note should be put into the program. I pointed out the methods used to "tame" Kate were indeed methods well know to those of us who work with battered women. The response was that the audience would know that the entire play was meant to be taken ironically. I argued that in fact this particularly community would be unlikely to have such a sophisticated reaction. As it was, several women watching the play found the violence, played for laughs, to under- score continuing violence against women in this community. I understand at least two women hissed at the epilogue. *Taming* is a very difficult play to read and watch if no effort is made to contextualize the story-line. Even if much explanation and discussion carries on, it is still hard to watch for women who are victims of such violence, not played for laughs, in their own lives. How can we be sure there will not be folks in our classes/audiences who will not be affected negatively, and this affect will override the literary merit of the piece. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 17:12:23 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Angela Vietto Subject: Re: wife-beating in literature Louisa May Alcott's _Work: A Story of Experience_ is on its face a feminist novel, but it has a wife-slapping scene that is seen as central to helping the heroine recover after an attempted suicide--pretty scary. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 20:59:33 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Sarah M. Pritchard" Subject: Pope Joan at the Library of Congress In response to the query about searching for books in the Library of Congress' online catalog about Pope Joan, part of the problem is that the official LC subject heading is JOAN (LEGENDARY POPE). In search systems that do not automatically construct keyword queries or link cross-references, it may sometimes be a long time (if ever) before one stumbles across the correct heading, especially if you only look at the brief author/title entries. By the way, in the LC database for items cataloged (not necessarily published) after 1968, there are 11 items under this subject heading. LC has now mounted its own gopher, which includes all kinds of useful information for employees, visitors, and researchers, and will allow you to connect directly to the databases. Telnet (or do the gopher thing) to MARVEL.LOC.GOV. Login as MARVEL. The LC catalog search systems were designed years ago and are not very obvious. There is a wealth of information and some great ways to manipulate the database, but little of that is explained right on the screens. Use all the "help" options you can! Sarah Pritchard Director of Libraries, Smith College (and ex-LC reference librarian in women's studies) spritchard@smith.smith.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 01:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Sandra Basgall <0005575992@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: lesbians & breast cancer If you do not give your e-mail address, many of us can not reply to you privately as your address does not show on our headers! As to lesbians and breast cancer, it's that women who have not had children are more likely to get breast cancer than those who have. As many lesbians have not had children, then it's logical. Sandra Basgall 557-5992@MCIMAIL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 22:16:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Joan Korenman Subject: CFP: Daughters of the Sisterhood I am posting this message for Rebecca Kaplan, who is not a WMST-L subscriber. Please reply directly to her, not to WMST-L, because she won't see the replies if you send them to WMST-L. Her e-mail address is rebecca@psyche.mit.edu. Joan Korenman (korenman@umbc) *********************************************************** CALL FOR PAPERS: DAUGHTERS OF THE SISTERHOOD This is my call for papers for a book which I have been working on now for several months. Just after I sent out my first calls for papers, it came to my attention that a woman in New York is working on a similar book. After some consultation with my brilliant advisers, I have decided to go ahead with this project regardless. As Robin Morgan wrote to me, "the more the merrier". Please forward this email anywhere and everywhere that interested people can be found. Rebecca Kaplan --------------------------------------------------------------- Daughters of the Sisterhood: An Anthology of Writings By Young Feminists and Womanists. * For those of us who were in our infancy when Sisterhood is Powerful was published. * An anthology of writings by women age 30 and under * Analysis, articles, poetry, documents of actions, photos and other non-fiction writing. * Addressing new issues in women's movements * Examining the change (or lack of change) in issues over the past 25 years. * Differences in the perspectives of older and younger activists in the women's movement. * How growing up with knowledge of an existing women's movement (and the existence of specific resources: feminist books, festivals, bookstores, organizations, etc) shaped our experiences. * What issues are currently priorities for young women? I will strive to include works from perspectives which have historically been denied a voice. Assistance will be available in translation/transcription where necessary. Please send typed, double-spaced manuscripts if possible. In general, submissions should be no longer than ten pages. (Manuscripts will not be returned). Please include a description of the author(s) with your manuscript, along with an address and phone number. The editor, Rebecca Kaplan, is a 22-year old radical feminist activist and writer, currently also in graduate school studying Urban-Social policy, who was born the same time that Sisterhood is Powerful was published. The next page contains a list of many issues that could be addressed from a womanist or feminist perspective in this book. Please use the list to generate ideas, it is not means to exclude other topics. The deadline for manuscripts is December 31st, 1993. Please send manuscriupts and correspondence to: Daughters of the Sisterhood c/o Rebecca Kaplan P.O. Box 441460 West Somerville, MA 02144 Phone: (617) 776-7163 E-Mail: rebecca@psyche.mit.edu ___________________________________________ Daughters of the Sisterhood Sample List of Topics * body image * reproductive rights * lesbianism * ageism * loving across differences * riot grrrrls * psychotherapy * recovery * bisexual women * radical heterosexuality * the "sex wars" (porn, sm) * the sex industry * the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings * the LA uprisings * eco-feminism * response to AIDS * the Reagan/Bush years * images of women in popular culture * assimilationism/tokenism * the meaning of women in power (government power, economic power, etc) * the gulf war - militarism and patriarchy * the meaning of the Clinton admin for women * differences/similarities between womanism and feminism * Hillary Rodham Clinton * the 'war on drugs' * racism in the feminist movement * classism in the feminist movement * capitalism, enemy or not? * multicultural feminism * multicultural alliance building * ability issues * "ethnic" identity * feminist communities * womyn's music festivals * censorship * transgenderism * liberal vs. radical * sex * accessibility * gender roles * economics/money * the role of men in our movement * poverty * education * health/health care * mothers/daughters * politics of abortion * religion * spirituality * differences between women (race, sexual orientation, class, ability, etc) * divisions/antagonisms between women * political ideologies * looksism * academic feminism * post-modernism * grassroots organizing * the place of feminist 'discourse' * feminists in the Ivory Tower * feminism gaining 'legitimacy' * indiginous peoples * Canada/USA * the 'fall' of 'communism' * party politics (is the democratic party for us?) * "PC" wars * the ascendance of the religious right * anti-feminist backlash * hate groups/hate crimes * rape * sexual harassment * clothing/appearance * new reproductive technologies * workplace dynamics * symbols and imagery of movements * 'family' * 'family values' * media imagery * AFDC, WIC * the men's movement * the beauty industry * civil disobedience * battered women * separatism * activism * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 21:37:02 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Sally Kenney Subject: Mother Jones Is anyone else on the list who actually spoke to the reporter from Mother Jones? She visited my feminist theory class. Our program went out of our way to be helpful to her (although she didn't show for her appointment with me nor called to cancel.) My feeling was that she had already decided that women's studies was touchy feely and void of contact and neglected to include information about anything that contradicted the preconception. As I recall, my class did not include a lot of personal "sharing" that day, but instead explored the complicated arguments of the difficult readings. We did, however sit in the dreaded circle. Lots of people spoke, and we went in the direction the students were most interested in, or on questions they had about the readings. She remarked at how intellectually challenging she found the discussion (meaning, she was surprised...). I suspect she had many other similar experiences but those were edited out. Perhaps she can learn something from "experience." So much for the logic, argument, and rationality she so valorizes in her article. While I should be smart enough to expect such distortions, I really expected more of a fair presentation from Mother Jones. Does anyone know how to contact Susan Faludi to provide some insight for her reply? Thanks. Sally J. Kenney Assistant Professor Political Science/Women's Studies University of Iowa BLASALWY@UIAMVS.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 19:44:31 PDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Victoria L Herring Subject: Marginalization & Devaluation I am a feminist lawyer in Des Moines and am handling litigation involving the closure of an all-female department in a University. One of the issues is the persistent university-wide and localized (within department or college) devaluation of women and marginalization of women. I am looking for resources, ideas, support, concepts, etc. If you can, email me to Victoria L. herring, aka vlherring@igc.apc.org. - many thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 00:26:23 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 25 Aug 1993 08:24:09 -0400 from i think we must do hard thinking about the tools and the purpose for which we use them - and think with our students when we advocate change. e.g., when i work on changing my university's policy on sexual harassment, i know i'm in a fairly conservative action, staying within institutional structures - tho some regard the change as radical. i do worry about sustaining those structures. if my project were radical, it would go after the conditions that create or at least contribute substantially to sexual harassment: curriculum, hierarchies, e tc. that construct power relations. i comfort myself that i'm working on something systemic within the institution which can lead to further affirmation of egalitarian relations. i don't recall that alinsky considered overarching s tructural relations in his advice to radicals. - it's not a perfect analogy, but i think kids who want a dance, e.g, ought to be helped to think about what the dance is about. kids (and adults) should be able to dance. if those dances reproduce power relations or the protest for them or achieving them goes no further than shallow gratification, that's worrisome. but maybe the same can be said for the end of sexual harassment: frees some up to exploit others in another way. in any case, i think these are issues to take up with students. i've found them knotty in classes. beatrice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 00:47:58 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: *Taming* Again! In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 25 Aug 1993 13:46:00 -0700 from i would like to see more discussion of literary merit of a text and its content they seem to be treated as independent factors by burton. i work with social t heories, not literature i.e., Literature. from the little reading i've done on this, i have the impression that there's a controversy over the independence issue. i'm particularly interested since i'll be team-teaching a graduate ws course with a lit professor in the fall. fall? beginning next week! beatrice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 00:55:12 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: Mother Jones In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 25 Aug 1993 21:37:02 -0500 from a note on the circle seating as indicative of the triviality of ws: at political sessions, conference, expected to be tense, round tables are common. seminars customarily are conducted around tables to facilitate communication. beatrice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 07:02:03 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Iana Pattatucci Subject: Lesbians & breast cancer The reason that you cannot find anything is because no systematic research on lesbians in this area has been done. What created all of the excitement was a report by Dr. Suzanne Haynes, an epidemiologist here at the National Institutes of Health. She performed a systematic study of studies ( a meta analysis) and through some rather "strained" extrapolations, came to the conclusion that lesbians may be at a 3-fold higher risk for developing breast cancer. Much of this is based on low fecundity (rate of reproduction). A few studies have been done on a small number of nuns. It was found that they have higher rates of breast cancer. Although no actual experiements have been done to my knowledge, it have pretty much become an accepted fact that the reason for their (so-called) higher breast cancer rate is low fecundity. From this, Dr. Haynes basically extrapolated a rate for lesbians. The National Cancer Institute, of which she and I are both members, didn't approve this for release. In fact, as the story goes, she was told to do the real work that would demonstrate a higher risk for lesbians. Dr. Haynes instead contacted the gay press and communicated her findings. To date, she has not published this in a scientific journal. As far as I know, there are two large ongoing studies designed to address high risk among lesbians for breast cancer. The first is a large mail-in survey that was passed out at the March on Washington and various gay pride day celebrations, sponsored by the Lesbian Health Project in Los Angeles. Dr. Haynes is a consultant for that study. The other is a large study being conducted at the National Institutes of Health of which I am the director. This study recruits lesbians and their families. There are 4 main groups of women being sought. (1) Lesbians with at least 1 lesbian/bisexual sister. (2) Lesbians that may or may not have a lesbian/bisexual sister, but who have other lesbian relatives such as daughters, mothers, aunts or cousins. (3) Lesbians who may or may not have lesbians relatives but who have at least one gay male relative. (4) lesbians who have no known lesbian or gay male relatives but who have straight relatives that might me willing to fill out a mail-in questionnaire. Family member from the first 3 groups participate in a personal interview and donate a small amount of blood. The 4th group participates through mail-in questionnaire. Since school is starting again, I wonder if any of you would be willing to post a flyer announcing the study on a bulliten board somewhere on your campus. If so, please contact me personally at the address below and I will mail you some. Thanks! iana pattatucci "Luciana%bchem.dnet@dxi.nih.gov" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 13:38:15 MET-1 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ronald Camstra Subject: lesbians and breast cancer Hi all, The relation between being lesbian and the higher chance to get breast cancer is a result of lesbians having a lesser chance to take children, I think. A research program of the Dutch cancer specialist Frits de Waard found out that giving birth to a child reduces the chances for breast cancer with 25 to 30 percent, due to hormonal processes that are activated when pregnant. Ronald ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 07:58:41 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: lin collette Subject: Re: Lesbians & breast cancer In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 07:02:03 -0400 from Luciana, I cannot contact you personally at your address, so I apologize for doing so through the list. I not only would be interested in receiving flyers to post, but would also like to take part. Please email me at: Bi599128@brown.edu or Bi599128@brownvm Thanks! lin collette Union Institute ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 14:03:58 MET-1 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ronald Camstra Subject: The life op pope Joanna, part two ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Here's part II of the life of Joanna. Again, text in quotes is a direct translation from the Dutch version of Roidis's Pope Joanna. We left Joanna in the hands of the monks, friends of her stepfather. The four are wandering through the woods, and late at night they arrive at an inn. It is Friday. The publican serves his guests goose. The monks cannot eat this and they push their plates away. Joanna thinks up a trick: she baptises the geese into fish, and because fish and fowl were created on the same day, they are related and therefore interchangeable and edible on Fridays. The three monks stuff themselves, and then they lavish themselves on wine. Once drunk, they loose all their piety and they try to rape Joanna. Joanna tries to beat them off, using the shinbone of Saint Marcellinus - who's relics the monks are carrying around. This approach doesn't work, and she resorts to prayer. This works beter, for at the moment one of the monks tries to give her a wine-ridden french kiss, she grows an instant beard. In the confusion she gets away. Safe from the monks and the inn, the beard vanishes. After some more wanderings she eventually reaches the cloister that she had been looking for at the end of the previous episode: the cloister of Mosbach. The Abbess is impressed with Joanna's erudition, and she is assigned to the library (the collection contains some 57 books). One day - Joanna is 17 now - a jong monk arrives at the cloister. He is of the order of Benedict. He has been given the task of copying the letters of Paul which are in the Mosbach Library. De Abbess asks Joanna to help the monk - Frumentius. They fall in love, but go to lengths to keep their piety. When the copying is nearly finished, they admit their love for each other, and by dayly erasing part of the work they did that day, they stretch their stay together with ten days. These days they pass 'writing, talking and kissing'. Then Frumentius has to go back to his own cloister. Woe! A couple of days later a letter from Frumentius arrives, carrying a plan of escape. Joanna follows the plan, and meets Frumentius in a graveyard. 'As soon he saw Joanna, who was picking her way timidly through the graves, he ran towards her as fast as a Capuchin towards a lambchop after the fourteen-day fast.' After some obvious tenderness, Frumentius takes out a black habit. Joanna puts it on and her life as a man - al least to the outside world - starts. Joanna first declines to do the travesty, but Frumentius convinces her by referring to Saint Thekla - sister of Apostle Paul -, Saint Margret, Saint Eugenia and Saint Matrona, whose 'bodies, white as the wing of an angel, they hid under a masculine habit'. Joanna is admitted as a novice to the Benedict Cloister of Fulda - the cloister Frumentius belangs to. The life of our two monks quietly ran its course. Their relationship was kept secret and undisturbed. The only one who might have suspected anything was the barber. A beardless Benedict was a rare case. But, he had two beardless customers. The other one was Corvinus. He was put in the cloister because he couldn't keep his hands of the niece of the Bishop Mogontia. When the Bishop caught them in the act, he first neutered him and then sent him to the cloister. There he drifted round, mourning his lost manhood, his head filled not with god but with .... Every night Joanna and Frumentius slipped away to a cave near the cloister, a sanctuary of Priapus - Saint Vitus. In the back of the cave, the lovers had built their nest: soft furs to ly on, plenty of good food and drink. There they were bedded down, as Corvinus sleeplessly drifted through the fields. As the first raindrops fell, Corvinus seeked refuge in the cave. Corvinus spots the lovers: Joanna, 'halfnaked as an Olympic Godess and at least as beautiful' and Frumentius beside her. Corvinus cannot restrain herself, and he strokes the sleeping Joanna. Frumentius wakes and his anger is ignited. He beats the allready battered Corvinus, who runs for his life. Because they are afraid Corvinus will tell the world, Joanna and Frumentius have to leave the hospitable Benedict cloister after seven beautiful years. to be continued Anton Oskamp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 09:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "BETH VANFOSSEN, INSTITUTE TEACHING/RESEARCH ON WOMEN, (301)830-2334" Subject: Info needed WANTED ASAP -- Identification of Curriculum Transformation Projects We are assembling a comprehensive list of curriculum transformation projects on women, which we hope to publish by the end of the year for distribution to any interested persons. We need your help in identifying such projects. Please send partial or complete data on any curriculum transformation projects that you know of anywhere in the U.S. or world to National Clearinghouse on Curriculum Transformation Resources on Women, Institute for Teaching and Research on Women, Towson State University, Baltimore, MD 21204; E-MAIL: E7W8CCT@TOWSONVX; FAX: (410) 830-3469; Ph.: 410-830-3943. We are focusing on curriculum transformation projects on women in the curriculum in higher education and K-12. We would also appreciate information on multicultural projects or other curriculum projects that have focused on women as a subcategory of their mission. Complete data would include: Name of project, location (institutional base or place of project), contact person (with address, phone number, fax and E-mail numbers), dates of project. We will also follow-up on partial information such as the name of the institution or project leader. We are particularly interested in identifying projects that may not be well known outside their particular institutions or points of origin. Thank you for your help! Sara Coulter. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 09:46:00 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: HOGAN Subject: Re: Lesbians & breast cancer While it is obviously not a scientific journal, The Advocate did a cover story on lesbians and breast cancer back in the spring, sometime. (I guess this is the gay press that Dr. Haynes contacted). Anyway-it is interesting reading. Tiffany Hogan ZACHARY@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 09:46:04 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Dianne Metzar Subject: audio/visual aids I am looking for some films, videos etc. which discuss feminist literary criticism, literature by and about women, images of women in literature, etc. for my Women and Literature Course. If anyone can recommend some audio/visual aids for the classroom, I would appreciate your help. Thanking you in advance. Dianne Metzar Broome Community College Binghamton, New York 13902 Bitnet: Metzar_D@snybccva Internet: Metzar_D@sunybroome.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 08:13:07 -0600 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Sharyl Bender Peterson Subject: Re: Lesbians & breast cancer This is directed to Iana Pattatucci; I tried to send it directly to the e-mail address specified in your post, but wouldn't go through. At any rate, I'd be happy to post flyers here, if you'd like to send some. My snail-mail address is: Dr. Sharyl Bender Peterson Colorado College 14 E. Cache La Poudre Colorado Springs, CO 80903 (e-mail: speterson@ccnode.colorado.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 10:25:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: lc22 Subject: Re: *Taming* Again! In-Reply-To: <9308260214.AA17502@umd5.umd.edu> I've tried teaching _Taming of the Shrew_ several times in a course on Linguistic Approaches to Literature. We've focussed on the joking interaction, in which Kate seems to "score more points" than Petrucchio, so to speak (i.e., he fails to continue a joking thread or has no reply to one of her sallies). Nonetheless, although I keep trying to find ways to present the play that focus on any power Kate might possibly have, or any mutuality between them, I keep coming back to a comment made by Robin Lakoff (I think): "What Petrucchio does to Kate, when done to captured American soldiers, was called brainwashing and evoked howls of outrage about the enemy's inhumane treatment of prisoners and obvious lack of concern for human life and dignity." (That's a fairly loose paraphrase, based on my frantically scrawled notes, and she may have been quoting someone else.) Linda Coleman Department of English University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 lc22@umail.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 10:39:06 U Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Harrison-Pepper Sally Subject: Feminism & Theatre Last year the theatre dept here did Wendy's Wasserstein's _Heidi Chronicles_ -- a play that is advertised as a "feminist" play and clearly is _not_. I met with the director and talked with him about the problems in the play. I gave him some materials to read, and then volunteered to organize a series of panels, four in all, to discuss the play. Two panels occurred prior to the play's opening (as a way to educate potential audiences), one occurred during the run of the show (to respond to the play's issues and the ways in which these issues were presented in this particular production), and the final one was held after the play closed. I invited members of the university community -- from psychology, art, theatre, women's studies, as well as a director and feminist from another university -- to speak informally and lead the discussions. So all the difficulties of the play became a useful vehicle for discussion. Of course, there is much than can be done to deconstruct, resist, and comment/or on a issues as specific directing choices. For a new book that discusses some of these strategies, see _Upstaging Big Daddy: Directing Theatre As If Gender and Race Matter_, edited by Ellen Donkin & Susan Clement. Perhaps you could read this book and then offer to lead a discussion of these issues with the people in your theatre department? *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* :-) Sally Harrison-Pepper :-) School of Interdisciplinary Studies :-) Miami University, Oxford OH 45056 :-) Voice: 513-529-5672 :-) Fax: 513-529-5849 :-) e: Harrison-Pepper_Sally@msmail.muohio.edu *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 11:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Paula Gaber Subject: inforM update: The Subjection of Women available The following file and/or directories have been added to the inforM Women's Studies Database: Women's Studies/Reading Room/Nonfiction/SubjectionofWomen An electronic text version of John Stuart Mill's _The Subjection of Women_ To access the inforM database, telnet to INFORM.UMD.EDU. (If you do not know how to telnet, contact a local computer wizard, or try typing "telnet inform.umd.edu" at the main prompt of your computer account). Hit return to set the default terminal type or type "?" for a list of choices. Use either your arrow keys or number keys to select -> 4. Educational Resources -> 12. Women's Studies The Gopher interface has a feature that allows users to send files to their e-mail accounts. Scroll to the end of the file and type "m", or at any time press "q" (for quit), then "m". The inforM system is also accessible by anonymous ftp. FTP to INFORM.UMD.EDU. Login as "anonymous", and use your mail address as a password. Choose the "info" directory by typing "cd info". The command "cd [directory name]" will change the directory. The commands "dir" or "ls" will display a list of files in that directory. Use the command "get [filename]" to download a file into your account. The directory pathname for the Women's Studies Database is "info/Teaching/WomensStudies". Your local Gopher System may be set up to automatically link to the Womens's Studies Database. Check the "Other Systems" or "Other Gophers" directory or ask your system administrator for help. Please remember that the system is case sensitive. Anything that appears in quotes must be typed exactly as it is here. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me. +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Paula Gaber inforM, Room 4343 Coordinator, Women's Studies Database Computer Science Center gaber@inform.umd.edu University of Maryland (301) 405-2939 College Park, Maryland 20742 =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 11:02:24 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Jo Malin Subject: study fliers I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 26-Aug-1993 10:58am EDT From: Jo Malin JMALIN Dept: Talent Search Tel No: 773-7718 TO: Remote RSCS/NJE Network User ( _JNET%WMST-L@UMDD ) Subject: study fliers Iana, I tried to send this directly but I won't go through. Yes, I will put up fliers. Send 20 or more. Jo Malin JMALIN@BINGVAXA 75 Helen St. Binghamton, NY 13905 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 09:31:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Phyllis Holman Weisbard Subject: women in science (tried to reply to Donna J. privtely, but message bounces back) There's a new biobibliography coming out called WOMEN IN CHEMISTRY AND PHYSICS: A BIOBIBLIOGRAPHIC SOURCEBOOK, ed. by Louise S. Grinstein, et al. Westport; Greenwood P., 1993. Leona Woods Marshall Libby is listed in the pre-pub announcement as one of the 75 women included. Also, and this is for EVERYONE on the list: We will soon (6 weeks?) have available a revised ed. of our book-length bibliography THE HISTORY OF WOMEN AND SCIENCE, HEALTH, AND TECHNOLOGY: A BIBLIOGRAPHIC GUIDE TO THE PROFESSIONS AND THE DISCIPLINES. It has sections for the history of women in each scientific discipline or health profession, with sub-sections for biographical material on individuals. There are also sections on the 'scientific' views of women and the fem. critiques of these views. When it is completed, I will make the bibliography available as a file (or more likely as files since it will be a few hundred pages printed from a download). We will also have a limited number of formatted, printed, bound copies to make available free -- after distribution to historians of science, libraries and women's studies programs in Wisconsin, and some other groups that have helped to underwrite the project. If you are teaching a women and science course or are researching in this area and wish to request a bound, printed copy, you can email me your request. Please include your regular mail address (and remember you won't be receiving it for a couple of months.) ******************************** Phyllis Holman Weisbard (608) 263-5754 Acting Women's Studies Librarian pweis@wiscmacc (Bitnet) University of Wisconsin System pweis@macc.wisc.edu (Internet) Room 430 Memorial Library 728 State Street Madison, WI 53706 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 11:06:52 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: WAGNER Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 00:26:23 EDT from In reading the fascinating discussion about using the "master"s tools, I wonder if we aren't looking at these issues in a more dualistic manner than we need. Just because the "master" uses these tools doesn't mean he invented them or that we couldn't find a radical way to use them. At the same time, I agree with Audre Lord's original premise. To actively advocate for strong sexual harassment policies certainly seems necessary to me, and is radical in some systems. In other words, is there a third alternative? Marion Wagner, IBOH100@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 12:52:34 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Diana H. Scully" Subject: Re: Info needed In-Reply-To: <9308261310.AA24631@cabell.vcu.edu>; from "BETH VANFOSSEN, INSTITUTE TEACHING/RESEARCH ON WOMEN," at Aug 26, 93 9:09 am Beth, Please supply your internet e-mail address. Diana Scully ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 12:15:51 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: susan heald f Subject: Re: audio/visual aids In-Reply-To: <9308261440.AA07552@mach1.wlu.ca> Re: Women and Literature films: The National Film Board (Canada) has a film about Quebecois feminist writers, called "Firewords." Susan Heald sheald@mach1.wlu.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 14:24:53 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "KAREN HICKS (KARENH@JOE.ALB.EDU)" <"LUCY::KARENH"@JOE.ALB.EDU> Subject: lesbians and breast cancer There is an emerging literature on lesbians and breast cancer. 1. *Cancer in Two Voices* by Butler and Rosenblum 2. Vol. 1 of Cancer/Fear/Power Series, Third Side Press. (Title of this book escapes me right now....it's at home) 3. Vol. 2 of same series *Confronting Cancer, Constructing Change* Lots of good references in these books. Sincerely, Karen M. Hicks Internet: karenh@joe.alb.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 11:41:09 PDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lisbeth Ann Lipari Subject: melodrama In-Reply-To: <199308261738.KAA07355@leland.Stanford.EDU>; from "Phyllis Holman Weisbard" at Aug 26, 93 9:31 am Can anyone suggest any feminist readings of melodrama, both literary and television genres? I'm particularly interested in the rhetorical dimensions of how melodrama is constructed. You can send any suggestions directly to me through internet: lisbeth@leland.stanford.edu Thanks in advance, lisbeth lipari department of communication stanford university ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 12:15:52 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Brenda Brasher Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: <9308261641.AA12647@chaph.usc.edu> from "WAGNER" at Aug 26, 93 11:06:52 am Marion wrote: > Just because the "master" uses these tools doesn't mean > he invented them or that we couldn't find a radical way to use them. At > the same time, I agree with Audre Lord's original premise. To actively > advocate for strong sexual harassment policies certainly seems necessary > to me, and is radical in some systems. In other words, is there a third > alternative? Interesting question, Marion. I, myself, was bothered by some of the disavowal of power which went on earlier in this discussion -- only because "power" is a tool which can be used for liberation and not simply oppression. My tendency is to think that there are multiple alternatives, and that we need to be creatively radical [bricholeurs of liberation?] and discover as many of them as possible! Brenda E. Brasher University of Southern California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 14:44:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Andrew Sessions Subject: Re: masters' tools Re: Jane Eliza's commentary on `Master's Tools" and Alinsky: The Industrial Workers of the World called it "work to rule" in which all the rules and regulations used to make labor more regulated were followed to the letter until the entire system was overloaded. I believe that Ford Motor Company currently calls this "Malicious Compliance." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 14:47:25 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "MARY TODD Subject: Re: audio/visual aids In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 09:46:04 -0500 from About your request for videos on women's literature, the two tapes by Bill Moyers interviewing Toni Morrison are excellent. They are available from the PBS catalog. Mary Todd Women's Studies Program The University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:00:02 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List Comments: Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X From: Linda Lopez McAlister Subject: Conference: Publishing Feminist Scholarship The NWSA Journal is sponsoring a one day conference for editors, editorial board members, and others with particular intrest in Feminist and Women's Studies journals to be held on October 30, 1993 from 9:00 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. at the University of New Hampshire, Memorial Union building, Durham NH. This is a "working" conference. The format will be designed to maximize discussion and exchange. For further information call Patsy Schweickart: (603) 742- 4937 (home) or 862-3976 (office), or Lili Ellison (603) 742-7675 or 862-3976. *************************************************************** HYPATIA has her old e-mail address: dllafaa@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu But Linda has a new one she'd prefer you to use for non-Hypatia and non-SWIP-L mail. It's mcaliste@chuma.cas.usf.edu Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:09:54 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Arnie Kahn Subject: Nomination of Dr. Elders The following message is not directly relevant to the mission of WMST-L, so please, lets not discuss the Elders nomination. Just make your phone call. Thanks Arnie ============================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 14:13 +0000 From: SPL.APA@email.apa.ORG (Limber, Susan) Subject: Nomination of Dr. Elders To: SPSSI-L@vms.cis.pitt.edu (-) Greetings to all on the list! I am SPSSI's James Marshall Public Policy Fellow in the Public Policy Office of the American Psychological Assoc. I wanted to draw your attention to the nomination of Dr. Joycelyn Elders for U.S. Surgeon General and ask for your help in bolstering support for her nomination. As many of you are aware, Dr. Elders is a well-qualified physician and scientist and is a strong advocate for preventive approaches to many serious health problems, including alcohol abuse, tobacco use, violence, unplanned pregnancy, and infectious disease. The APA as well as numerous other health and mental helath organizations have publicly endorsed Dr. Elders for Surgeon General. The Senate will vote on the nomination in early September after the August recess. The reason that I'm bringing this issue your attention is that many right wing groups are lobbying hard on radio and T.V. to defeat her nomination. To counter this effort it is important that Senators hear from their consituents who support the nomination. If you support Dr. Elders' nomination, please contact your Senators as soon as possible before September 7. You may call 202-224-3121 to reach your Senators through the Capitol Switchboard. If you would like to send a Western Union mailgram to each of your Senators, you may dial: 1-800-372-2626. Mention code 9433 to the operator. The operator will ask for your address and phone number. Two letters supporting Dr. Elders will be sent automatically to your two Senators. A charge of $6.70 will appear on your phone bill. Thanks in advance for your help. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me. Sue Limber (spl.apa@email.apa.org) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 15:56:55 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Linda Bernhard Does anyone have a mailing address, or any other way of contacting the Scandinavian journal, NORA? Thanks for the help. Please reply privately to: Linda Bernhard lbernhar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 13:24:54 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "E. Butler-Evans" Subject: Re: audio/visual aids In-Reply-To: <9308261953.AA05166@ucsbuxb.ucsb.edu> Charlie Rose conducted an excellent interview with Toni Morrison last night (Wednesday August 25) on PBS. It is available on video tape. Elliott Butler-Evans English Department UC Santa Barbara ebevans@humanitas.ucsb.edu On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, it was written: > About your request for videos on women's literature, the two tapes by > Bill Moyers interviewing Toni Morrison are excellent. They are available > from the PBS catalog. > > Mary Todd > Women's Studies Program > The University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:30:12 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Jennifer Organization: Princeton University Press Subject: NORA Sorry to give this to the whole list; the original one wouldn't go through. NORA Scandinavian Univ. Press PO Box 2959 Toyen N-0608 Oslo, Norway FAX: 011-4722-5753 EMAIL: J.MANLOWE@PUPRESS.PRINCETON.EDU SNAIL: JENNIFER L. MANLOWE, PHD PRINCETON UNIVERSITY PRESS 41 WILLIAM STREET PRINCETON NJ 08540 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:01:38 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Janet E. McAdams" Subject: Re: audio/visual aids In-Reply-To: <9308261953.AA26294@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> Several interviews Moyers conducted with American poets as part of the "Voices and Visions" series are available in most university libraries--Joy Harjo, Mary TallMountain, Sharon Olds, etc. On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, it was written: > About your request for videos on women's literature, the two tapes by > Bill Moyers interviewing Toni Morrison are excellent. They are available > from the PBS catalog. > > Mary Todd > Women's Studies Program > The University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:28:26 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beth Cohen Subject: Feminist psychology internship sites? I will be applying for my pre-doctoral internship in counseling psychology this fall, and I would like to go to a counseling center where I can get training in feminist therapy and working with multicultural clientele and issues. I would like to get recommendations for places to apply and approaches to take to the application process. For instance, I'm wondering, even if a program has a couple of strong feminist therapists from whom I could learn feminist therapy, might it also have a director or selection committee who would rather not know much or at all about my feminist interests? Thank you so much. By the way, thanks to all who replied to my request for the short form of the BSRI for use in my dissertation. I have replied to some of you individually and will reply to the rest of you soon. Beth Cohen, Ph.D. Candidate in Counseling Psychology Department of Psychology, University of Missouri-Columbia 210 McAlester Hall, Columbia, MO 65211 office voice phone: (314) 882-5607 office fax: (314) 884-6172 home phone: (314) 446-4606 internet: bethc@fcm.missouri.edu bitnet: c508371@mizzou1.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:42:03 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lisa Auanger Subject: "feminist theory" What is "feminist theory"? At present is there a "feminist theory" which everyone should know, have an idea about or otherwise? Is there the "feminist theory"? Lisa Auanger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:14:58 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: barbara dibernard Subject: Re: audio/visual aids In-Reply-To: <01H272TZ4HMC003MVR@crcvms.unl.edu> from "Dianne Metzar" at Aug 26, 93 09:46:04 am Women Make Movies, 462 Broadway, Suite 503, New York, NY 10013, 212-925-0606 has many films about women and literature. They have puttogether a series called "Women andWords." It's wonderful, very multicultural. Our "alternatiave" film theater atthe University of Nebraska is booking the whole series for this spring (this costs quite abit of money). Good luck. Barbara DiBernard Univ. of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0333 bjd@unlinfo.unl.edu> > I am looking for some films, videos etc. which discuss feminist literary > criticism, literature by and about women, images of women in literature, > etc. for my Women and Literature Course. If anyone can recommend some > audio/visual aids for the classroom, I would appreciate your help. > Thanking you in advance. > > Dianne Metzar > Broome Community College > Binghamton, New York 13902 > > Bitnet: Metzar_D@snybccva > Internet: Metzar_D@sunybroome.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:32:06 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Melissa L. Jones" Subject: Re: Nomination of Dr. Elders This note is in response to Sue Limber's request for support for Dr. Jocelyn Elder's nomination for US Surgeon General. She is very much on target about the right-wingers denouncing Elder's nomination. Here in Elder's home state of Arkansas, the Bible-thumping conservatives are hard at work, both in newspaper a nd TV campaigns, attempting to portray Elders as a condom-distributing advocate of teenage sex. I truly believe that the conservatives in this state have thwarted the majority of Dr. Elders efforts to make sex education and contraceptives accessible to young people; this is more than likely why Arkansas has one of the highest rates of teenage/unwed pregnancy in the country. Before I get on my soapbox about "dispensing information is not the same as granting permission for promiscuity", I will close. But I do urge everyone to take Limber's advice and call or write his/her Senator!! Melissa Jones, Little Rock, AR Internet mljones@ualr.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:13:11 PDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Joel Truher Subject: Mother Jones Seeks Responses Mother Jones To order a one year subscription for $18, send your name and complete address to subscribe@mojones.com. August 26, 1993 Sally Kenney's message about Mother Jones' women's studies article ("Off Course," in our September/October issue) has come to our attention through another member of the mailing list. In the hope of stimulating a thorough and informed airing of the issues raised in Karen Lehrman's article, we have decided to post it and invite direct response. We have already invited Susan Faludi and other prominent figures in the field to submit responses for our November/December "Backtalk" section and invite those who come across the article here to respond as well. We'd like to run as many responses as possible, and therefore request that you keep them to 100 words (though we reserve the right to edit all submissions). If your comments are to be considered for publication, we must have them by September 1. Our Internet address is backtalk@mojones.com. You may also fax us at 415/863- 5136. The issue goes on sale at newsstands on August 31. If the magazine isn't available at your newsstand, you can order it directly from us for $5 (1663 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94103). If you wish to copy the article for discussion in a class, please contact Richard Reynolds at the above address. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication or use without permission is prohibited. To apply for duplication permission, send mail to copyright@mojones.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:13:11 PDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Joel Truher Subject: Off course Mother Jones To order a one year subscription for $18, send your name and complete address to subscribe@mojones.com. Date: Sept/Oct 1993 Head: Off course; Visits to the frontlines of one of one of feminism's greatest academic victories raises a disturbing question: Is women's studies failing women? Author: Karen Lehrman It's eight o'clock on a balmy Wednesday morning at the University of California at Berkeley, and Women's Studies 39, "Literature and the Question of Pornography," is about to begin. The atmosphere of the small class is relaxed. The students call the youngish professor by her first name; the banter focuses on finding a man for her to date. She puts on the board: "Write 'grade' or 'no grade' on your paper before turning it in." Students--nine women and one man--amble in sporadically for the first twenty minutes. Today's discussion involves a previous guest speaker, feminist- socialist porn star Nina Hartley. The professor asks what insights the students gained from Hartley's talk. They respond: "She's free with her sexuality. . . . I liked when she said, 'I like to fuck my friends.' . . . No body-image problems. . . . She's dependent in that relationship. . . ." The professor tries to move the discussion onto a more serious question: have traditional feminists, in their antiporn stance, defined women out of their sexuality? After a few minutes, though, the discussion fixes on orgasms--how they're not the be-all and end-all of sexual activity, how easy it is to fake one. The lone male stares intently at a spot on the floor; occasionally he squirms. I never took a porn class when I went to college ten years ago. In fact, I never took a women's studies class and don't even know if the universities I attended offered any. Women's studies was about a decade old at the time, but it hadn't yet become institutionalized (there are now more than six hundred programs), nor gained notoriety through debates over the canon and multiculturalism. But even if I had been aware of a program, I'm certain I would have stayed far away from it. It's not that I wasn't a feminist: I fully supported equal rights and equal opportunities for women. But I was feminist like I was Jewish--it was a part of my identity that didn't depend on external affirmation. Perhaps more important, as a first-generation careerwoman, I felt a constant need to prove my equality. I took as many "male" courses--economics, political science, intellectual history--as I could; I wanted to be seen as a good student who happened to be a woman. There were a couple of problems, though: I didn't learn much about women or the history of feminism, and like most of my female peers, I rarely spoke in class. Last spring I toured the world of women's studies, visiting Berkeley, the University of Iowa, Smith College, and Dartmouth College. I sat in on about twenty classes, talked to students and professors at these and other schools, amassed syllabi, and waded through the more popular reading materials. I admit to having begun with a nagging skepticism. But I was also intrigued: rumor had it that in these classes, women talked. And they do. The problem, as I see it, is what they're often talking about. In many classes discussions alternate between the personal and the political, with mere pit stops at the aca-demic. Sometimes they are filled with unintelligible post-structuralist jargon; sometimes they consist of consciousness-raising psychobabble, with the students' feelings and experiences valued as much as anything the professor or texts have to offer. Regardless, the guiding principle of most of the classes is oppression, and problems are almost inevitably reduced to relationships of power. "Diversity" is the mantra of both students and professors, but it doesn't apply to political opinions. Not every women's studies course suffers from these flaws. In fact, the rigor and perspective of individual programs and classes vary widely, and feminist academics have debated nearly every aspect of the field. But it seems that the vast majority of women's studies professors rely, to a greater or lesser extent, on a common set of feminist theories. Put into practice, these theories have the potential to undermine the goals not only of a liberal education, but of feminism itself. This doesn't mean, as some critics have suggested, that these programs should simply be abolished. Women's studies has played a valuable role in forcing universities to include in the curriculum women other than "witches or Ethel Rosenberg," as Iowa's Linda K. Kerber puts it. The field has generated a considerable amount of first-rate scholarship on women, breaking the age-old practice of viewing male subjects and experience as the norm and the ideal. And it has produced interdisciplinary courses that creatively tie together research from several fields. Whether all this could have been accomplished without the creation of women's studies programs separate from the traditional departments is a moot question, especially since these programs have become so well entrenched in the academy. The present challenge is to make women's studies as good as it can be. Although the problems are significant, they're not insurmountable. And perhaps more than anything else, women's studies prides itself on its capacity for self-examination and renewal. Berkeley was the only stop on the tour with an actual women's studies department. It is one of the largest, most established and respected programs in the country. Overall, it impressed me the least. At the other extreme was Smith, where the classes tended to be more rigorous and substantive and there was a greater awareness of the pitfalls of the field. (The students were also far more articulate, though that may have little to do with women's studies.) I found the most thoughtful professors in Iowa's program, which doesn't even offer a major. The program at Dartmouth, perhaps compensating for the school's macho image, seemed the most prone to succumbing to the latest ideological fads. Classroom therapy "Women's studies" is something of a misnomer. Most of the courses are designed not merely to study women, but also to improve the lives of women, both the individual students (the vast majority of whom are female) and women in general. Since professors believe that women have been effectively silenced throughout history, they often consider a pedagogy that "nurtures voice" just as, if not more, important than the curriculum. Women's studies professors tend to be overtly warm, encouraging, maternal. You want to tell these women your problems--and many students do. To foster a "safe environment" where women feel comfortable talking, many teachers try to divest the classroom of power relations. They abandon their role as experts, lecturing very little and sometimes allowing decisions to be made by the group and papers to be graded by other students. An overriding value is placed on student participation and collaboration: students make joint presentations, cowrite papers, and use group journals for "exploring ideas they can't say in class" and "fostering a sense of community." Because chairs are usually arranged in a circle, in a couple of classes taught by graduate students I couldn't figure out who the teacher was until the end. To give women voice, many professors encourage all discourse--no matter how personal or trivial. Indeed, since it is widely believed that knowledge is constructed and most texts have been influenced by "the patriarchy," many in women's studies consider personal experience the only real source of truth. Some professors and texts even claim that women have a way of thinking that is different from the abstract rationality of men, one based on context, emotion, and intuition. Fully "validating" women, therefore, means celebrating subjectivity over objectivity, feelings over facts, instinct over logic. The day I sat in on Berkeley's "Contemporary Global Issues for Women" (all women except for one "occasional" male), we watched a film about women organizing in Ahmadabad, India. The film was tedious, but it seemed like grist for a good political/economic/sociological discussion about the problems of women in underdeveloped countries. After the film ended, though, the professor promptly asked the class: "How do you feel about the film? Do you find it more sad or courageous?" Students responded to her question until the end of class, at which point she suggested, "You might think about the film in terms of your own life and the life of your mother. Women are not totally free in this culture. It just might come in more subtle ways." A previous discussion was apparently not much better. "We had to read an enormous amount of interesting material on reproductive rights, which I was very excited to discuss," Pam Wilson, a women's studies sophomore, told me. "But all she did in class was ask each of us, 'What forms of birth control have you used, and what problems have you had?' We never got to the assigned readings." Self-revelation is not uncommon to women's studies classes. Students discover that they're lesbian or bisexual, for example, and then share it with the class. In a group journal (titled "The Fleshgoddesses") from last year's porn class, B. wrote: "There is still something about a [man] eating a [woman] out . . . that freaks me out! I guess I'm such a dyke that it seems abnormal." G. recalled that her father used to kiss her on the mouth "real hard" when she was eight or nine. Of course, self-discovery and female bonding are important for young women, and so, one might argue, are group therapy and consciousness-raising. Indeed, I wish I had had some when I was that age; it might have given me the courage to talk in class and to deal with abusive bosses later in life. But does it belong in a university classroom? Many of the professors I talked with (including the chair of Berkeley's women's studies department) viewed the more touchy- feely classes as just as problematic as I did. I saw a couple of teachers who were able to use personal experience, either of historical figures or students, to buttress the discussion, not as an end in itself. But even these classes were always on the verge of slipping into confession mode. This pedagogy does get women talking. But they could do much of this type of talking in support groups at their schools' women's centers. Young women have many needs, and the college classroom can effectively address only one of them: building their intellects. As Ruth Rosen, who helped start the women's studies program at the University of California at Davis, puts it, "Students go to college to be academically challenged, not cared for." But the problem with a therapeutic pedagogy is more than just allowing students to discuss their periods or sex lives in class. Using the emotional and subjective to "validate" women risks validating precisely the stereotypes that feminism was supposed to eviscerate: women are irrational, women must ground all knowledge in their own experiences, etc. A hundred years ago, women were fighting for the right to learn math, science, Latin--to be educated like men; today, many women are content to get their feelings heard, their personal problems aired, their instincts and intuition respected. Politics, as usual "Don't worry. We've done nothing here since she forgot her notes a couple of weeks ago," Michael Williams reassures another male student. "We'll probably talk about Anita Hill again." We're waiting for Berkeley's "Gender Politics: Theory and Comparative Study" to begin. When the professor finally arrives and indicates that, yes, we'll be talking about Anita Hill again, the second male student packs up and bolts. Williams tells me that during the first week or two, whenever a male student would comment on something, the professor would say, "What you really mean is . . ." Most men stopped speaking and then dropped out. "Other classes I walk out with eight pages of notes," says Williams. "Here, everybody just says the same thing in a different way." (He stays, though, for the "easy credits.") Most women's studies professors seem to adhere to the following principles in formulating classes: women were and are oppressed; oppression is endemic to our patriarchal social system; men, capitalism, and Western values are responsible for women's problems. The reading material is similarly bounded in political scope (Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon, bell hooks, Adrienne Rich, and Audre Lorde turn up a lot), and opposing viewpoints are usually presented only through a feminist critique of them. Feminist Frontiers III, a book widely used in intro courses, purports to show readers "how gender has shaped your life," and invites them to join in the struggle "to reform the structure and culture of male dominance." Although most of the classes I attended stopped short of outright advocacy of specific political positions, virtually all carried strong political undercurrents. Jill Harvey, a women's studies senior at Smith, recalls a feminist anthropology course in which she "quickly discovered that the way to get A's was to write papers full of guilt and angst about how I'd bought into society's definition of womanhood and now I'm enlightened and free." Sometimes the politicization is more subtle. "I'm not into consciousness-raising," says Linda K. Kerber, a history professor at Iowa. "Students can feel I'm grading them on their competence and not on their politics." Yet in the final project of "Gender and Society in the United States," she asked students: "Reconsider a term paper you have written for another class. How would you revise it now to ensure that it offers an analysis sensitive to gender as well as to race and class?" Politicization is also apparent in the meager amount of time the classes devote to women who have achieved anything of note in the public sphere. Instead, students scrutinize the diaries and letters of unremarkable women who are of interest primarily because the patriarchy victimized them in one way or another. According to professors and students, studying "women worthies" doesn't teach you much about oppression. Moreover, some added, these women succeeded by male, capitalist standards. It's time for women's traditional roles and forms of expression to be valued. This may be true, but you don't need to elevate victimized women to the status of heroes to do that. It should also be noted that over the past twenty-five years feminists have been among those who have devalued women's traditional roles most vigorously. I bet not many women's studies majors would encourage a peer's decision to forgo a career in order to stay home and raise children. More important, examples of women who succeeded in the public sphere, possibly even while caring for a family, could be quite inspiring for young women. Instead, the classes implicitly downplay individual merit and focus on the systematic forces that are undermining everything women do. In general, "core" women's studies courses are more overtly political and less academically rigorous than those cross-listed with a department. The syllabus of Iowa's "Introduction to Women's Studies" course declares: "As we make our collective and individual journeys during this course, we will consider how to integrate our theoretical knowledge with personal and practical action in the world." "Practicums," which typically entail working in a women's organization, are a key part of many courses, often requiring thirty or more hours of a student's time. Volunteering in a battered-women's shelter or rape crisis center may be deeply significant for both students and society. But should this be part of an undergraduate education? Students have only four years to learn the things a liberal education can offer--and the rest of their lives to put that knowledge to use. Courses on women don't have to be taught from an orthodox feminist perspective. Smith offers a biology course that's cross-listed with women's studies. It deals with women's bodies and medical issues; feminist theory is not included. Compare that to the course description of Berkeley's "Health and Sex in America": "From sterilization to AIDS; from incest to date rape; from anorexia to breast implants: who controls women's health?" Which course would you trust to be more objective? Many women's studies professors acknowledge their field's bias, but point out that all disciplines are biased. Still, there's a huge difference between conceding that education has political elements and intentionally politicizing, between, as former Women's Studies Professor Daphne Patai puts it, "recognizing and minimizing deep biases and proclaiming and endorsing them." Patai, whose unorthodox views got her in hot water at the University of Massachusetts, is now coauthoring a book on the contradictions of women's studies. "Do they really want fundamentalist studies, in which teachers are not just studying fundamentalism but supporting it?" A still larger problem is the degree to which politics has infected women's studies scholarship. "Feminist theory guarantees that researchers will discover male bias and oppression in every civilization and time," says Mary Lefkowitz, a classics professor at Wellesley. "A distinction has to be made between historical interpretation of the past and political reinterpretation." And, I would add, between reading novels with an awareness of racism and sexism, and reducing them entirely to constructs of race and gender. Apparently there has always been a tug of war within the women's studies community between those who most value scholarship and those who most value ideology. Some professors feel obligated to present the work of all women scholars who call themselves feminists, no matter how questionable their methodology or conclusions. Unfortunately, women's studies students may not be as well equipped to see through shoddy feminist scholarship as they are through patriarchal myths and constructs. One reason may be the interdisciplinary nature of the programs, which offers students minimal grounding in any of the traditional disciplines. According to Mary Lefkowitz, women's studies majors who take her class exhibit an inability to amass factual material or remember details; instead of using evidence to support an argument, they use it as a remedy for their personal problems. But teaching students how to "think critically" is one of the primary goals of women's studies, and both students and professors say that women's studies courses are more challenging than those in other departments. "Women's studies gives us tools to analyze," says Torrey Shanks, a senior women's studies and political science major at Berkeley. "We learn theories about how to look at women and men; we don't just come away with facts." Most of the women's studies students I met were quite bright, and many argued certain points very articulately. But they seemed to have learned to think critically through only one lens. When I asked some of the (Continued on page 64) (Continued from page 51) sharpest students about the most basic criticisms of women's studies, they appeared not to have thought about them or gave me some of the stock women's studies rap. It seemed that they couldn't fit these questions into their way of viewing the world. For instance, when I expressed the view that an at-times explicit anticapitalist and anti-Western bias pervades the field, a couple of majors told me they thought that being anticapitalist was part of being a feminist. When I asked whether, in the final analysis, women weren't still most free in Western capitalist societies, the seemingly programmed responses ran from "I wouldn't feel free under a glass ceiling" to "Pressures on Iranian women to wear the veil are no different from pressures on women in this country to wear heels and miniskirts." The student party line Despite the womb-like atmosphere of the classrooms, I didn't see much student questioning of the professors or the texts. Although I rarely saw teachers present or solicit divergent points of view, the students' reluctance to voice alternative opinions seemed to stem more from political intolerance and conformity on the part of fellow students. In Smith's "Gender and Politics" class, several students spoke against the ban on gays in the military before Erin O'Connor, her voice shaking, ventured: "I think there is something to the argument of keeping gays out of the military because of how people feel about it." After several students said things like, "The military should reflect society," O'Connor rebounded: "I'm sick and tired of feeling that if I have a moral problem with something, all of a sudden it's: 'You're homophobic, you're wrong, you're behind the times, go home.' There must be someone else in this classroom who believes as I do." Professor: "No one is saying that support of the ban is homophobic." "I would make that assertion," offered a student. Professor: "But you can argue against the ban from a nonhomophobic perspective." Another student: "It's homophobic." When class ended, another woman approached O'Connor and said: "You're absolutely right, and I'm sure there are others who felt the same way but just didn't say anything. You went out on a limb." No one used the word homophobic until O'Connor did. Still, students, especially in this ostensible "safe environment," shouldn't have to overcome a pounding heart to voice a dissident opinion. "Women's studies creates a safe space for p.c. individuals, but doesn't maintain any space for white Christians," says O'Connor, an English and government major and member of the College Republican Club. In a study by the Association of American Colleges, 30 percent of students taking women's studies courses at Wellesley said they felt uneasy expressing unpopular opinions; only 14 percent of non-women's studies students felt that way. Smith's Jill Harvey told me about a "Medical Anthropology" class filled with women's studies students. The professor presented an author's view that one difference between men and women when paralyzed is that men are rendered incapable of getting an erection. "The students jumped down his throat, believing he was insinuating that all women have to do is lie back and enjoy sex," says Harvey. "It was absurd, but I didn't feel like I could speak up. I sometimes feel the other students' attitude is: if you don't agree with me, you're too stupid to understand how oppressed you are." The pressures on professors to toe the correct feminist line can be even stronger. History Professor Elizabeth Fox-Genovese says she stepped down as chair of Emory's women's studies program because of complaints from students and faculty that she wasn't radical enough. Political theorist Jean Bethke Elshtain left the University of Massachusetts after being attacked for including men on her reading list, allowing men in class, and presenting an array of different feminist positions. She now teaches at Vanderbilt. "Most teachers of women's studies presume that if you don't see yourself as a victim, you're in a state of false consciousness, you're 'male-identified.' The professors here [at Vanderbilt] recognize that feminism is in part an argument." Women's studies professors take little responsibility for turning female students into Angry Young Women. Yet the effect of these classes, one after another, can be quite intoxicating. (After just a few days, I found myself noticing that the sign on the women's bathroom door in the University of Iowa's library was smaller than the one on the men's room door.) The irony is not only that these students (who, at the schools I visited at least, were overwhelmingly white and upper-middle-class) probably have not come into contact with much oppression, but that they are the first generation of women who have grown up with so many options open to them. Post-structuralism and multiculturalism Perhaps the most troubling influence on women's studies in the past decade has been the collection of theories known as post- structuralism, which essentially implies that all texts are arbitrary, all knowledge is biased, all standards are illegitimate, all morality is subjective. I talked to numerous women's studies professors who don't buy any of this (it's typically more popular in the humanities than in the social sciences), but nevertheless it has permeated women's studies to a significant extent, albeit in the most reductive, simplistic way. According to Delo Mook, a Dartmouth physics professor who is part of a team teaching "Ways of Knowing: Physics, Literature, Feminism," "You can't filter other cultures through our stencil. Nothing is right or wrong." What about cannibalism? Clitorectomies? "Nope. I can only say, 'I believe it's wrong.'" But post-structuralism is applied inconsistently in women's studies. I've yet to come across a feminist tract that "contextualizes" sexism in this country as it does in others, or acknowledges that feminism is itself a product of Western culture based on moral reasoning and the premise that some things are objectively wrong. Do feminist theorists really want the few young men who take these classes to formulate personal rationales for rape? There's a huge difference between questioning authority, truth, and knowledge and saying none of these exist, a difference between rejecting male standards and rejecting the whole concept of standards. Like post-structuralism, the concept of multiculturalism has had a deep influence on women's studies. Professors seem under a constant burden to prove that they are presenting the requisite number of books or articles by women of color or lesbians. Issues of race came up in nearly every class I sat through. I wasn't allowed to sit in on a seminar at Dartmouth on "Racism and Feminism" because of a contract made with the students that barred outside visitors. Terms like sexism, racism, and homophobia have bloated beyond all recognition, and the more politicized the campus, the more frequently they're thrown around. I heard both professors and students call Berkeley's women's studies department homophobic and racist, despite the fact that courses dealing with homosexuality and multiculturalism fill the catalog and quite a number of women of color and lesbians are affiliated with the department. Although many professors try to work against it, in the prevailing ethos of women's studies, historical figures, writers, and the students themselves are viewed foremost as women, as lesbians, as white or black or Hispanic, and those with the most "oppressed" identities are the most respected. Feminist theorists now generally admit that they can't speak for all women, but some still presume to speak for all black women or all Jewish women or all lesbians. There's still little acknowledgment not only of the individuality of each woman, but of the universal, gender-blind bond shared by all human beings. The road not taken Women's studies programs have clearly succeeded with at least one of their goals: whether because of the mostly female classes, the nurturing professors, or the subject matter, they have gotten women students talking. But getting women to speak doesn't help much if they're all saying the same thing. Women's studies students may make good polemicists, but do they really learn to think independently and critically? Elizabeth Fox-Genovese says she had envisioned Emory's women's studies program as a mini-women's college: "I thought it should be a special environment that took women seriously and asked them to be the best that they could be by the standards of a good, liberal arts education." Young women--and men--would be steeped in sound scholarship on women, but they would also be offered a variety of theories and viewpoints, feminist and otherwise. Unfortunately, this hasn't been the perspective of most women's studies professors. Women's studies was conceived with a political purpose--to be the intellectual arm of the women's movement--and its sense of purpose has only gotten stronger through the years. The result is that the field's narrow politics have constricted the audience for nonideological feminism instead of widening it, and have reinforced the sexist notion that there is a women's viewpoint. There's a legitimate reason why two-thirds of college women don't call themselves feminists. "When I got here I thought I was a feminist," Erin O'Connor from Smith told me. "I don't want to call myself that now." Clearly the first step is for women's studies to reopen itself to internal and external criticism. The intimidation in the field is so great that I had trouble finding dissident voices willing to talk to me on the record. The women's movement has come a long way in the past twenty-five years--feminists should feel secure enough now to take any and all lumps. Young women should also no longer feel it necessary to shun classes devoted to women, as my friends and I did. Women today still have to work for their equality, but they don't have to prove it every second. And as the status of women in this country evolves, so should the goals of women's studies. It's for its own sake that women's studies should stop treating women as an ensemble of victimized identities. Only when the mind of each woman is considered on its own unique terms will the minds of all women be respected. Karen Lehrman is writing a book on postideological feminism. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication or use without permission is prohibited. To apply for duplication permission, send mail to copyright@mojones.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 18:52:33 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lisa Auanger Subject: "history of women" Is anyone interested in discussing approaches to texts, writings, illustrations, works, products, etc. of men (ancient through contemporary), approaches a feminist could conscientiously use to help fill in the gap in our `historical knowledge' about women of ancient Greece and Italy? I'm inclined to think that by emphasizing and teaching "exceptions" (e.g.aristocratic women), one might paint a rosier picture than can be justified. Lisa Auanger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:51:00 PDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Kimberly Santini Subject: Survey I AM CONDUCTING A STUDY FOR A PSYCHOLOGY OF WOMEN COURSE AT UCLA. IN MY STUDY, I WILL COMPARE MEN AND WOMEN'S PERCEPTIONS OF (THEIR) ROLE MODELS. I WOULD BE FOREVER INDEBTED IF ANYONE COULD SPARE A FEW MINUTES TO FILL OUT THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONNAIRE AND E-MAIL IT DIRECTLY TO ME. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO ANSWER ALL OF THE QUESTIONS - YOUR COMMENTS ARE IMPORTANT - FEEL FREE TO SAY AS MUCH (OR AS LITTLE) AS YOU LIKE. PLEASE SEND YOUR RESPONSES TO ME BY FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 3. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION - KIMBERLY SANTINI EGJ4G2Z@UCLAMVS.BITNET or EGJ4G2Z@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU ===================================================================== I AM ( ) MALE ( )FEMALE MY AGE: CURRENTLY I AM: ( ) A STUDENT ( ) EMPLOYED OCCUPATION: ______________________ ( ) OTHER PLEASE EXPLAIN: __________________ __________________________________ ===================================================================== PLEASE DEFINE A FEMALE ROLE MODEL: PLEASE DEFINE A MALE ROLE MODEL: WHEN I WAS 10 MY ROLE MODEL WAS: WHEN I WAS 15 MY ROLE MODEL WAS: WHEN I WAS 20 MY ROLE MODEL WAS: MY CURRENT ROLE MODEL IS: WHAT QUALITIES DID THE ABOVE INDIVIDUALS POSSESS THAT YOU MOST ADMIRED, AND HOW DID YOU BECOME AWARE OF THESE QUALITIES (I.E., TELEVISION, MAGAZINES, ETC.)? PLEASE LIST FIVE WOMEN AND FIVE MEN WHO, IN YOUR OPINION, ARE OUTSTANDING ROLE MODELS. ========================================================================= AGAIN, THANK YOU. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO RECEIVING MANY INTERESTING RESPONSES. KIMBERLY EGJ4G2Z@UCLAMVS.BITNET or EGJ4G2Z@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 22:02:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: dl81 Subject: more refs okay The publisher of the reference guide to American literature was so excited about my asking for e-mail input, the deadline has been extended to allow for more of it! For anyone who missed the original query, I have been asked to review the guide and recommend women and non-anglo authors who ought to be included for their next edition. I asked that anyone who had the time to forward names they would consider "musts" for such a guide, and received some really helpful responses. For this round, I have been asked to add a request for any recommended specific WORKS that should be considered for a section in which selected works representing the range of notable and enduring American literature are catalogued and described. Please note the ethnicity of any authors you recommend, as I am not necessarily familiar with all of them. I have through the weekend this time. Thanks again. DEB LOUIS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 22:07:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: dl81 Subject: Angie Chin Angie, where are you? If anyone can help with a current address, phone number, even a clue as to where she is (Bay Area, I think), I'd deeply appreciate it. I believe she was at San Francisco State teaching labor history last year or the year before. And more thanks. DEB LOUIS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 23:20:22 -0400 Reply-To: korenman@UMBC2.UMBC.EDU Sender: Women's Studies List From: Joan Korenman Subject: messages that shouldn't go to WMST-L Now that the academic year is about to start, WMST-L is becoming much more active--perhaps too active. If the list is to continue to be a useful professional tool, we'll all have to use restraint in sending messages. In particular, please remember that the following sorts of messages should not be sent to WMST-L: 1) Discussions of politics or of gender-related societal issues (except in the context of teaching or research). Depending on the issue, such messages should instead be sent to GENDER, FEMISA, FEMAIL, WOMEN, or a more specialized list. The last section of the WMST-L User's Guide contains addresses for these and other lists. 2) Undergraduate surveys and requests for help with papers and projects. As worthy as many of these may be, the volume of mail on WMST-L is simply too heavy to accommodate such messages. 3) Replies intended only for one person. These should be sent PRIVATELY. Do not mindlessly hit "reply." If you don't know how to address replies privately, consult the computer support staff at your institution. Many thanks for your understanding and cooperation. Joan Korenman Internet: korenman@umbc2.umbc.edu Bitnet: korenman@umbc ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 00:02:21 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: BG1640%ALBNYVMS.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Subject: video etc Diane Metzar wrote: >I am looking for films, videos etc. which discuss feminist literary >criticism, literature by and about women, images of women in literature, etc... I would appreciate it if replys to her request were posted to the list-- or if a list of what she found out would be made available to the list @ some point. Thanx. Belle Gironda SUNY-ALbany bg1640@albnyvms ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 01:16:15 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Allan Hunter Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Subject: Re: "feminist theory" In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:42:03 CDT from On Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:42:03 CDT Lisa Auanger said: >What is "feminist theory"? At present is there a "feminist theory" which >everyone should know, have an idea about or otherwise? Is there the >"feminist theory"? Lisa Auanger Does it have to be SINGULAR in order for the phrase to be viable? The ways of thinking called "feminist theory" provide a world-view which is still more internally consistent than NON-feminist theories tend to be, (despite their differences), rare exceptions beside the point. And yeah, in general "everyone" should know about a lot of them because it is good stuff if you like to understand things, and think, and so on. On occasion I have wondered if it is worthwhile to spend time studying "that which is NOT feminist theory", but even some NON- feminist theory is at least moderately worthy of tangential study if you have some spare time and nothing better to do. But for our era, I find feminist theory to be the best religion/philosophy/worldview/ compendium-of-common-sense/tactic/repository of experience/etc going. i.e.-- There are ways of addressing social reality which do begin with the assumption that an oppressive yet NON-inevitable-or-unchangable situation called "patriarchy" exists; and there are also (oddly enough) some which do not. For ease of categorization, the former category is often referred to as "feminist theory". Question--why so much easy hostility to the very word "theory"? Get it off its damn pedestal! Polysyllables and obscurity are NOT a requirement! - Allan Hunter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 08:10:56 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Iana Pattatucci Subject: lesbians and breast cancer Again, I want to emphasize that the work of Frits de Waard and others is speculative. Although it may make sense to you, the actual experiments have not been done. What they have found is a correlation. However, there is a well-established correlation between height and breast cancer as well, such that women over 6 ft. *seem* to be at higher risk. Nevertheless, I think that it is a stretch of the imagination to invoke a direct cause for height. The demonstration that having a first pregnancy prior to 20 and carrying that pregnancy to term (the group with the lowest apparent risk according to certain researchers) would require a longitudinal study. Most people in research know that longitudinal studies are extremely unpopular with funding agencies. iana "luciana%bchem.dnet@dxi.nih.gov" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 08:48:54 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Jane Elza Subject: Re: *Taming* Again! In-Reply-To: <9308261441.AA22114@umd5.umd.edu> does anyone remember the tv series blue moon take off on taming? It does a good job of pointing out kate's power and predicament. the ending has her 'winning' in that she condescends to do what petrucio wnats. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 09:43:00 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Patricia A. O'Donnell :pattyo@irishmvs.cc.nd.edu" Subject: women's centers We are still battling here at Notre Dame to get a Women's Center opened. It feels like a losing battle right now. I was wondering if those of you at colleges or universities with Women's Centers could send me the address of phone number of the center? We are attempting to contact as many centers as we can in order to find out how they got established, their budget, their programs, etc. THANKS in advance! Patty O'Donnell University of Notre Dame pattyo@irishmvs.cc.nd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 11:27:57 MDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2 From: Lahoucine Ouzgane Subject: _The Famine Within_ From: Lahoucine Ouzgane About one or two months ago, someone on the list asked about _The Famine Within_, Katherine Gilday's documentary exploring the cultural, social, and psychological causes of eating disorders. It's on tonight, Friday, August 27, 8 p.m. (Mountain Time) on WTVS Detroit--also also called Channel 56. Anyway, I recommend the documentary very HIGHLYfor class use, among other uses. Lahoucine Ouzgane ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 13:35:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Deborah G. Ventis" Subject: Women and Law Journal Law students at the College of William & Mary have contacted me as coordinator of our Women's Studies Program to discuss their plans for publishing a new student-run journal on Women and the law. I would appreciate receiving any information from list members about similar journals elsewhere, purposes such a journal might try to serve for student and faculty scholars interested in women and the law, etc. Please respond to me privately and I will forward the announcement of the journal and the call for submissions once the editorial staff has finalized their plans. Thanks for your assistance Deborah G. Ventis Coordinator of Women's Studies College of William & Mary Williamsburg, VA 23187 WPSADGV@WMMVS ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:00:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "(K. K. Miller)" Subject: Re: _The Famine Within_ Is Channel 56 a PBS station or syndicated? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 15:22:00 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Carol.Rudisell@MVS.UDEL.EDU Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS The Women's Studies Interdisciplinary Program at the University of Delaware will host a conference on April 15 and 16, 1994, on the theme of "Interdisciplinarity and Identity." The occasion will also mark the 20th anniversary of the Women's Studies Program at the University and the inauguration of a new Women's Studies major. bell hooks will be the keynote speaker. Persons interested in presenting may obtain additional information by writing to Women's Studies Program, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716, or calling Jessica Schiffman at (302) 831-8474. Deadline for proposals (paper presentation, roundtable discussion, symposia, performance, or poster session) is November 1, 1993. E-mail inquiries may be directed to: jessica.schiffman@mvs.udel.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 22:13:56 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 11:06:52 EST from on the possibility of a `third alternative' to the masters' tools: i don't know except to work on the kind of exploration of organization and procedures we we re doing in the '70s in trying to solve problems of conflict within our own gro ups. the problem is that at a certain point, and not necessarily only among fe minists, there are choices that have to be made eg, whether you permit the wome n's health clinic to be shut down; adversaries won't always/usually listen to reason. on an issue of the distribution of resources, it's fairly easy: do the struggle for reconceptualizing resources and producing them. a case in point, tho: we might agree that more resources should go into food housing, health rather than computerization. are we willing to forego internet? my initial reaction to roseanne's reminder the Master signifies slavery was: make a decisi o based on rejection of any ownership of persons. but that doesn't take us far enuf. feminist theorizing has not adequately addressed issues of individuals and groups, collectivity, and community. beatrice ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 22:31:06 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: masters' tools In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 12:15:52 -0700 from yes, power is a tool that can be used for liberation or oppression. we could think in terms of nancy hartsock's `power for' others. but these concepts don' t take us very far, either. we still must ponder what liberation means, what kind of power we want for others, for ourselves, how the community is affected beatrice ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 21:57:07 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lisa Auanger Subject: Re: "feminist theory" In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 27 Aug 1993 01:16:15 EDT from Why categorize? Lisa Auanger c513024@mizzou1 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 22:43:42 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Beatrice Kachuck Subject: Re: "feminist theory" In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:42:03 CDT from there are multiple feminist theories, diverse, oppositional, complementary. to start a search you could read rosemarie tong's feminist thought, josephine donovan's feminist theory; each has shortcomings, analyses i disagree with. donovan moves readers to an essentialist position, tong draws on elshtain exces sively, i think as a communitarian. zilla eisenstein in feminist and sexual equality describes elshtain as a revisionist left feminist. also see for brief intro overviews allison jaggar and paula rothenberg's feminist frameworks, 3rd ed. bell hook's feminist theory: from margin to center is important. hester eisenberg's contemporary feminist thought is a little dated but also a useful i ntro. for weighter stuff for intro: linda nicholson's feminism/postmodernism an d allison jaggar's feminist politics and human nature. if you like, e-mail me privately and i'll send you the syllabus for my course, contemporary feminist thought: social theories. beatrice beabc.cunyvm.cuny.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 23:00:00 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Vivien Ng Subject: directory of women's centers I'd like to call your attention to the _NWSA Directory of Women's Studies Programs, Women's Centers, and Women's Research Centers_(1990). There may still be copies left at the NWSA office at the University of Maryland. For more information on availability and price, please e-mail to Loretta Younger at Loretta_Younger@umail.umd.edu. Be sure to cite exact title. Vivien Ng NWSA president aa0509@uokmvsa.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 21:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Wendy Burton Subject: literary merit and independence This is a reply to Beatrice Kachuck's comment of Wed. 25 August, about liter- ary merit and content. I don't know if you can characterise my comment on *Taming* as treating content and literary merit independently. In the teaching I do with First Nations learners (Native Americans), it is clear to me that teaching a text deemed to be offensive to the readers (that is, the students) by defending its literary merit leads us no where. In practice, it seems to be impossible to separate content, literary merit and the reader's response. When I am teaching English literature I encourage the students to consider literary merit (is this a good piece of writing), content (what does this text mean -- a large and complex question in litcrit), and does this text have morality separate from its pages. Obviously, I am condensing a very complicated matter into a few lines for discussion's sake. What is clear, in the classroom, is that some texts 'mean' different things to different readers, and the responses I might wish my students to have (responses that in the past I would characterise as "objective" but no longer) require them to read against themselves. This is the case with *Taming* for example, or many of the books in the canon of first year English. Defending literary "greats" that have racist, homophobic, sexist sentiments... etc leads us into difficult realms in the classroom. What am I to ask my students to make of texts that consistently treat them as if they are invisible in the history of their own lands? What am I do when young women object to the brainwashing in *Taming*, when the response they will get from some teachers is that while *Taming* may be a very good example of wife battering, it is by Wm Shakespeare, it is a great work, and great works ought to be considered above such mundane objections. I have many questions about this myself. My students and I struggle with reading the great works every day. Relaxing into curriculum material that restores their experiences, their voice, their memories, helps, but there is not much I have discovered over 14 years of teaching that can be whole-heartedly endorsed as a great work. I want the students to love the greats -- and find themselves somewhere in them. Face it, *many* great works are filled with assault and battery (of all kinds). What ought we to do with these texts, which inform one particular culture's cultural heritage? Treat them as artifacts? Do they still have the power to wound? These musings connect to our on-going discussion of Lorde's comment about the master's tools. She was speaking of language, I believe. I begin teaching this semester a peculiar mix in one classroom. Half of the students are what this institution calls "international" students and half of the seats have been reserved for First Nations students. The course composition was not my choice or design, but I will be in there, Wednesday morning, working with students from many different places and cultures, trying to make sense of *English* literature. Any ideas? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 00:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Mindy Fiala Subject: Re: "feminist theory" Lisa wrote "Why categorize?" I think that to some extent theory always does. think that to some extent theor y always does. I'm not sure what you're asking. This is an interesting discussion and I hope it continues. My own viewpoint on feminist theory is tending towards the belief that feminist theory is more a way of using theory than a theory in itself and I think that thi (excuse me, should be this) is a good thing. Feminist theory in literature began by looking at how women were portrayed in literature, usually by male writers and then a second strain was added, looking at women's writing in terms of difference from men's writing. This has been done using New Criticism, New Historicism, psychoanalytic, structuralist and deconstructive theory, to name only a few. Because of feminist use of literary theory, of all types, many women writers have been added to the canon. MIndy Fiala ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 00:38:09 -0500 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Mindy Fiala Subject: Re: literary merit and independence Wendy, I think that there is value in teaching the best of the original canon, in conjunction with the newer additions, because even though we do run into to justifiably angry reactions from students, they are reacting and thinking critically. This is after all the goal of education. I don't feel we need to defend the text - that's never generally worked anyway. When I present material like the kind you speak of, I try to make it clear to the students that their opinion counts. Just because critics consider a writer to be great doesn't mean anyone must agree with what he/she says. Hope this helps. Mindy Fiala ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 01:31:16 LCL Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ruth Ginzberg Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University Subject: Re: "feminist theory" >Why categorize? Lisa Auanger c513024@mizzou1 Hang on a minute here... Categorization *itself* isn't a problem, is it? I mean, it helps us to think, to generalize, to see patterns... E.g., without the category "woman" - how could anyone ever have noticed that women were oppressed? (P'haps all that would have been noticeable would have been endless repetitions of "personal" problems in individuals' lives...) W/out the categories of "personal" and "political" how could anyone ever even have had the thought, "The personal is political"...? Etc. --------------------------------------------- Ruth Ginzberg Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA [Not the US Supreme Court Judge; no relation] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 10:14:54 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: literary merit and independence I think Wendy Burton has really identified an important thread of our discussion on Taming, one actually I had hoped to spark in suggesting we need to think of the play as a play about spousal abuse. How do we teach "classics" which we (or are students) may find morally repugnant for one reason or another. I have been chewing this one over for quite some time (indeed I write briefly about it in the beginning of the last chapter of my book). Actually my advice to Wendy in answer to her question of how to teach these works in the kinds of mixed classes she describes is to do exactly what she talks about in her posting--make the issue a problem to be explored. I find very compelling Gerald Graff's argument that we should try to solve all of our curricular problems and disagreements and only *then* present them to students; we should rather present them precisely *as problems*, draw our students into the conflicts that we find so compelling, that make us passionate. I think it is quite appropriate to discuss in class the problems we might have with the "classics." I make it a point to do so. If I'm teaching Taming (which I will admit I haven't taught in some years), I want the students to consider the ways in which the play, however entertaining (and I usually show them the BBC production with John Cleese as Petruccio), sends some very unsettling messages. Ditto for other Shakespearean works. AFter all why should Shakespeare be above such criticism. That we [meaning literary critics I suppose] should work so hard to make Shakespeare "morally correct" suggests the extent to which we still by into the old Horatian platitude that literature should delight and instruct. Is this still how we justify teaching literature? that we are exposing our students to "the best that has been thought and written?" In my introduction to women's and gender studies class I always use Shakespeare's Henry V as a means to talk about the ways in which arguments about "good government" and leadership are caught up with ways of talking about masculinity. to connect the above with the thread on the "master's tools," I would argue that we do have a third alternative, which I suggested earlier. We can "poach," a term which can describe the ways in which those oppressed can turn the very means of their oppression to their own advantage. Laurie Finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 10:19:33 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: STRETCH OR DROWN/ EVOLVE OR DIE Subject: Re: "feminist theory" Why categorize? There are, it seems, to me two ways of looking at theory. One we have inherited from certain 18th century notions of Newtonian physics which says that theory exists to make the disorderly orderly. As a result we categorize, usually drawing upon static categories. To do this we have to exclude certain phenomena. I usually tell my students to think about the kinds of graphs they have to draw in science classes where they connect data points. Sometimes the points lie outside of the neatest line they can draw. These they are told to exclude. But another way of thinking about theory is to think of it as a heuristic. I don't know my way around the world and I'm going to try to find ways to help me out. In this way of thinking about theory, disorder can be allowed as "information" that can lead to better representations of the world. Theory in this view (my view obviously) is not systematization, but exploration. Terry Eagleton says that the theorist is like a child, always asking impossible questions. Laurie Finke finkel@kenyon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 08:19:16 -0700 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Ruth Dickstein, University of Arizona Main Library" Subject: teaching about abortion Someone who is not on the list asked me to post the following message. You can reply to the list or directly to me. Thank you. Someone mentioned a good article or book on teaching about abortion. I think it was connected to the American Sociological Association. Could you ask for the cite? I am going to be teaching an honors class in Introduction to Women's Studies in the Spring with honor students and W. S. majors and minors. I want to increase the depth and breadth for that course. Ruth Dickstein dickstei@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 10:17:59 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Bob Bender Subject: Re: literary merit and independence In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 28 Aug 1993 00:38:09 -0500 from On Sat, 28 Aug 1993 00:38:09 -0500 Mindy Fiala said: >Wendy, I think that there is value in teaching the best of the original >canon, in conjunction with the newer additions, because even though >we do run into to justifiably angry reactions from students, they are >reacting and thinking critically. While I very much agree with Mindy's about the value of teaching all kinds of texts, new old, canonical or not, it seems to me we sometimes are a little too easy in our designation of "the original canon." Shakespeare, or rather "Shakespeare studies" provides an excellent illustration of the impermanent, shifting nature of the "canon." Until the so-called romantic revival, Words- the likes of Dr. Johnson, that Shakespeare's best works were the history plays the first full length study of Shakespeare was centered on Falstaff. The tragedies until then were considered labored works. Voltaire liked but HAMLET, for example, but declared it appeared to be the work of a barbarian. THE TAMING OF THE SHREW came into favor in the late 19th century. Noting said here indicates we should or shouldn't teach, produce, or comment on any of the plays. The discussion of TAMING has been and is very interesting and focusing on these issues is a good way to attack the play. We might even allow students to come to their own conclusions. Personally, I find feminist readings of the play strained, on the page or on the stage. Set in the context of the treatment of women in Shakespeare's time, there's a grim gallows humor to Petruchio's treatment of Kate. Bob Bender University of Missouri-Columbia engbob@mizzou1 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 12:47:37 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: DAPHNE PATAI Subject: "identity politics" - origin of Can anyone help me locate the original source of the phrase "identity politics"? Many thanks. -- ====================== Daphne.Patai@spanport.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 12:50:42 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: DAPHNE PATAI Subject: date needed for Signs article I don't have an index to the various volumes of SIGNS, hence I'm asking you all if anybody happens to know the date (or the year) of an article by Kathleen Jones, "Toward a Woman-Centered, Woman- Friendly Polity"?? Many thanks. (I have looked through all my old issues but somehow am not seeing it - maybe hysterical blindness?). D.-- ====================== Daphne.Patai@spanport.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 10:34:43 PDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Ann Weinstone Subject: writing class Does anyone know of any video material on the history of writing instruments or alphabets? I'm looking for a writing workshop I'm teaching this fall. Thanks. Ann Weinstone syd@igc.apc.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 14:42:41 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: "Dr. Roseanne L. Hoefel" Subject: audio/visual aids Last Thursday, Dianne Metzar inquired about a-v materials. I've just discovered a wonderful resource which I spent two full days studying to my delight at such a wealth and richness: WAVE (Women's Audio-Visuals in English)--A Guide to Nonprint Resources in Women's Studies. This goldmine lists 800 a-v titles by and about women produced between 1985-1990, in 88 annotated pages of films, videos, audiocassettes, and filmstrips, including complete ordering information, with names and addresses of distributors, as well as title and subject indexes. Send a check for $2 payable to University of Wisc./Madison to: Women's Studies Librarian, 430 Memorial Library, 728 State St., Madison, WI 53706. All best--Roseanne Hoefel@alma.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 16:29:00 EST Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Christine Smith Subject: Rape on Film For my dissertation, I am examining empathy toward rape victims. I am looking for films prior to 1985 that portray a rape scene (not too graphic because I need to be able to show this to Intro to Psych students, some of whom may have had sexual assault experience). A film could be more current if it is obscure enough that the vast majority of 19 year olds have not seen it. I would appreciate any suggestions. Please respond privately. Christine Smith csmith@vms.cis.pitt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 15:21:30 CDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Lisa Auanger Subject: Re: "feminist theory" In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 28 Aug 1993 01:31:16 LCL from No. I don't think that "categorization *itself*" is a problem. The deed does enable one to find materials in libraries. But, it seems to me that it may, in fact, have been a "masters' tool" which still is used as such. That is to say, it might be pointed out, as no doubt it has been, e.g. that women are, by and large, smaller than men, hence cannot do the same tasks and should be paid less, excluded from certain positions, etc. Albeit unlikely, perhaps, that such an `argument' be used in academia...well, perhaps that's not "categorization"? I don't know when `categorization' becomes problematic, but think that it does, even now. How can one categorize in general but not run the risk of transmitting `knowledge,' patterns of thought, methods,etc. which could all too easily be used against one? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 18:16:25 -0400 Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Joan Korenman Subject: Re: teaching about abortion Earlier today, Ruth Dickstein posted a message for someone looking for good books and articles on teaching about abortion. I thought I'd use this opportunity to remind people that the WMST-L filelist contains the file ABORTION TEACH1, which is a compilation of messages dealing with how to teach about abortion. To get this file, send the message GET ABORTION TEACH1 to LISTSERV@UMDD or LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU. To find out what other files are available, send listserv the two-word message INDEX WMST-L . DO NOT SEND THESE MESSAGES TO WMST-L. Joan Korenman Internet: korenman@umbc2.umbc.edu Bitnet: korenman@umbc ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 21:24:03 EDT Reply-To: Women's Studies List Sender: Women's Studies List From: Sonja Launspach Subject: Re: "feminist theory" In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 28 Aug 1993 01:31:16 LCL from re catagories: for an interesting look at categories see Lakaoff's book Women, Fire and Dangerous Things. The book looks at what catefories of language and thought reveal about the human mind.The parts I've read have been very thought provoking. This is in a way an agreement with the statement that we 'need' categories, it's one way the mind organizes all the input it recieves How the categories are organized is often cultural, however as the title of the book slyly points out. It is taken from a noun class in an Aboriginal languag e that includes those three things among others Sonja Launspach